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Old 08-09-2007, 06:59 PM   #16
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Now let's see, would I hit Ted in the head to save a human of higher intelligence?
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:41 PM   #17
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And while we're at it, why don't we abolish veterinary medicine, except perhaps for life-threatening ailments in lucrative farm animals...they're just vermin, after all; let 'em suffer or die if they get hit by a car or develop a hoof infection. And let's have hunting season on stray dogs and cats, too...that way there'll be more garbage and rats available to send to starving Africans, instead of it going to waste on varmints.

As a parent, naturally I'm more concerned that my children learn to be good citizens of their country and the world than that they learn to be model dog owners. It doesn't follow from that, though, that I don't think they're learning valuable lessons in discipline, responsibility and sensitivity to others' needs by helping to care for our dog, much less that I'd shrug it off if I caught them tormenting him. It's one of innumerable small things that helps develop their moral imagination.

All this blather about valuing animals over humans is strawman absurdity--no one was proposing concern for reckless slaughter of endangered animals rather than concern for slaughter of people. The article wasn't about starving locals hunting gorillas because they have nothing else to eat, it wasn't about medical researchers discovering miracle cures through experimentation on mountain gorillas, it's about criminals armed with assault rifles and landmines illegally killing endangered wild animals--not domestic livestock being sustainably raised on farms for the purpose--to get in on the gravy train of the international niche market in "luxury" bushmeat. This is senseless ravaging of nature, it doesn't sustainably serve basic human needs.

If you're not doing what (relatively little) you can to pressure your own government to do more to address the Darfur crisis, that's your own damn fault. There are articles on it in the Times, the Post, the WSJ, the BBC, etc., etc., etc. virtually every day; we've been through all this before. But it's not the media's job to make you do anything about it; they can only inform, and if it makes you feel morally superior to make sure you read all those daily while pointedly refusing to read the odd article about mountain gorilla slaughter, well then go right ahead. I'm sure the Darfurians will be relieved to know that you nobly titillate yourself daily with stellar feature journalism about their miseries, which you then toss aside with a resigned sigh until the next day's installment, yet admirably eschew the dismal moral failing of pausing to recoil for a moment at something as absurdly less "useful" as a story about the illegal slaughter of gorillas.



BTW Ted Nugent is an idiot, I've hosted him twice as he did book signings at the store I used to manage. A nice enough guy actually, but a complete moron.
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Old 08-09-2007, 07:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
If by hitting a monkey in the head with a hammer I could save a human life. I would do it.

~a paraphase of something I heard Ted Nugent say on a talk show several years ago when confronted with animal rights activists.

Ted Nugent .....now there's a role model.


BTW, people just remembered who has cheapened human lives....other humans.

If we only had respect for our fellow brothers and sisters,
it would carry over into the rest of the world as well.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:30 PM   #19
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Originally posted by yolland


BTW Ted Nugent is an idiot, I've hosted him twice as he did book signings at the store I used to manage. A nice enough guy actually, but a complete moron.
I'm not a fan of Ted, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a moron. He actually is a very intelligent conservationist. The problem is that if he spent just a fraction of the time that he spent spewing out mysoginist inuendoes and trying to put a gun in everyone's hands on humanitarian issues he'd be a redeemable guy. He's very misguided in his agendas. I have no problem with anyone who supports responsible hunting, in fact he's very good at that... What I do have a problem with is that he loses all responsibilty when it comes to not knowing where the line of gun ownership stands, and he dismisses any beliefs that don't fall into his realm.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:56 PM   #20
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The problem is that if he spent just a fraction of the time that he spent spewing out mysoginist inuendoes and trying to put a gun in everyone's hands on humanitarian issues he'd be a redeemable guy.
Yeah, well that was mostly the kind of 'spew' I heard from him, and it was delivered with all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer...perhaps because of 'encounters' he'd had on the book tour circuit, I don't know. Honestly he came across like one of these folks who's smoked waaaaay too much pot, and now their mind veers wildly from one association to another with attendant verbal spasms, though I doubt that was the problem. Anyhow, I don't have any problems with his views on hunting, sustainably managed hunting is fine, most everywhere I've lived has had lots of hunters, and yes it does provide an important food source for many people. And as a camper and hiker, I appreciate the fact that many great places are available for me to do those things because of hunters' license fees and hunters' interests in having responsibly managed wildlife areas supporting them. But none of that has anything to do with the thread topic; we're definitely not talking "responsible" hunting practices here, nor human lives being held hostage to those of monkeys because no one wants to hit them with a hammer.
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:57 AM   #21
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Killing monkeys to save humans is a worthwhile excercise, how much has that sacrifice done for the cause of medical science - although killing a Gorilla for food, meh, too gamey.
This is what I love about human beings... What makes you believe that you have anymore of a right to exist and live your life than any other creature on this planet?
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:06 AM   #22
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This is what I love about human beings... What makes you believe that you have anymore of a right to exist and live your life than any other creature on this planet?
It's called nature's law.

Apply to every creature on this planet, not only human.

My grandmother once told me that when she was little, her best friend was attacked by a wolf and found 3 days after in the wild field, no belly, but only a body-shell left. That's a main reason she doens't like dogs.

I think you should tell the parents not to ask the men in the whole village gathered to kill the wolf. And other kids' parents should not join because they worried their own kids' safety, once the wolf attacked a human, for some reason it would remeber the taste and do it over and over again.

Try to tell them your theory.
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by butter7


It's called nature's law.

Apply to every creature on this planet, not only human.

My grandmother once told me that when she was little, her best friend was attacked by a wolf and found 3 days after in the wild field, no belly, but only a body-shell left. That's a main reason she doens't like dogs.

I think you should tell the parents not to ask the men in the whole village gathered to kill the wolf. And other kids' parents should not join because they worried their own kids' safety, once the wolf attacked a human, for some reason it would remeber the taste and do it over and over again.

Try to tell them your theory.
Humans should not go out of there way to kill animals. If an animal attacks, of course humans can defend themselves, thats not the question.
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Old 08-11-2007, 09:50 AM   #24
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OMG! lets go completely off the subject about defenceless animals being killed for NOTHING and the fact that someone you know knew someone who was killed by a WILD ANIMAL. Where were her parent sprotecting her from this wolf? Are we supposed to now only have animals either domesticated or locked up in zoos?

It totally annoys me that people trot out these FEW AND FAR BETWEEN stories to prove a freaking point.
Fact: We're animals just like all of them. Secondly even though we have a brain, we're more stupid then they are.
Thirdly, no one is saying that an animal is better then a human, but if you don't actually feel any emotion when you hear of the sensless killing of animals then... something is wrong with you seriously.

Also in the case of these gorrillas, they are endangered. We've fucked up their habitat, their food, their millions of square metres of forest for our own selfish needs, and then we have people going and starting to kill the remaining ones. I mean what is wrong with people?!
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:47 PM   #25
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy


but if you don't actually feel any emotion when you hear of the sensless killing of animals then... something is wrong with you seriously.


Very seriously wrong.

It is totally beyond my adult comprehension that when you look at that majestic beautiful beast you can't help but feel sorry for him and his family.

He and they were where they were supposed to be. They didn't invite people in to kill them for no reason. They did not attack anyone.

You can help but feel for these poor gorillas, who are intelligent, and so very close to us that its amazing.

These are some pictures that I took at the Bronx Zoo.
How can you not love them?





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Old 08-13-2007, 05:40 AM   #26
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gorgeous pictures JC!
Such wonderful creatures
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by dazzlingamy
OMG! lets go completely off the subject about defenceless animals being killed for NOTHING and the fact that someone you know knew someone who was killed by a WILD ANIMAL. Where were her parent sprotecting her from this wolf? Are we supposed to now only have animals either domesticated or locked up in zoos?

It totally annoys me that people trot out these FEW AND FAR BETWEEN stories to prove a freaking point.
Fact: We're animals just like all of them. Secondly even though we have a brain, we're more stupid then they are.
Thirdly, no one is saying that an animal is better then a human, but if you don't actually feel any emotion when you hear of the sensless killing of animals then... something is wrong with you seriously.

Also in the case of these gorrillas, they are endangered. We've fucked up their habitat, their food, their millions of square metres of forest for our own selfish needs, and then we have people going and starting to kill the remaining ones. I mean what is wrong with people?!
Absolutely!

JCoster, I'm sorry....I can't even bring the emotional strength to open that link up....to me it's like seeing the news....it's bad enough already watching suffering everyday, I just can't do it.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:06 AM   #28
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JCOSTER
[B]


You can help but feel for these poor gorillas, who are intelligent, and so very close to us that its amazing.

These are some pictures that I took at the Bronx Zoo.
How can you not love them?[B]




They even feed their young better than us.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:07 AM   #29
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dbl post
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:55 AM   #30
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Stupid humans will only stop when the world has been cleared of any natural bush and wild animals. I can't believe people still buy ivory or eat bushmeat.
I'm not saying I'm a saint but people need to be educated. Hunting is only one way the animals are being killed, what about all the forests being logged. Being chased from your home and slowly starved isn't any better than being shot.
Humans and animals are equals but only humans have the power to change things
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