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Old 08-13-2007, 02:10 PM   #106
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Originally posted by 2861U2



These people are the extreme left wing- the left of the left. The Democratic candidates are pandering to them because if they dont, they will become Joe Lieberman (who is a moderate) in the above picture.

This point I can understand. The thing is that most registered Democrats who will vote in the primaries are NOT middle of the road voters. Therefore, to be nominated, Democratic candidates seem to lean more left than they would in the general election. But the same thing can be said for the Republicans. Before the primaries, the Republican candidates are likely to lean more towards the right then they would in the general election in order to cater to the registered Republicans.

An example I can give is Mr. Giuliani. His stance on abortion is pro-choice. Because of this, he may lose votes in the primaries from registered Republicans. Becuase of this, he has taken a far-right stance on some issues in order to balance off his pro-choice stance. IMO, thats why he seems the most hawkish on the War in Iraq and even said that he would consider nuking Iran. This is why I can't stand Rudy Giuliani. If you listen to the things he says about the War in Iraq and the War in Terror, they seem to echo what Bush says sometimes. While John McCain also supports the war, it seems like he really sincerely supports it, and at the same time he also has pointed out what Bush or Rumsfeld did wrong in the war. Even though I am against the war, I would much much rather have McCain in the White House than Giuliani.

Myself being a Republican, I am so frustrated with this "catering" to the right wingers or the left wingers. Ron Paul is the only candidate I support at the moment because he had the balls to vote against the War and always be against it and against his own party. All the other Republicans seem to still be leaning pro-war simply in order to get the candidacy.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:10 PM   #107
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Originally posted by 2861U2
I would love to respond to the rest of these points right now, but I really dont want to spend all day on Interference. I leave for school in a few days, and I have a million things to do. Adieu.
Nicely done!


PS--That shit won't fly at school, you know. Just a friendly reminder.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:11 PM   #108
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I dont think you can compare that poll with "Vote for your favorite Beautiful Day artwork." I would think that with the former, people would take that a little more seriously and be a tad more considerate and humane.
I was talking about FYM.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

I would love to respond to the rest of these points right now, but I really dont want to spend all day on Interference. I leave for school in a few days, and I have a million things to do. Adieu.
I figured as much.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:24 PM   #109
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega
I'm just curious, as I study Economics, how should a state that collects less and less taxes work?

Of course it always can spend its money more effectively and efficiently, but come on, at some point you just aren't able to cover your costs anymore.
Well the theory is that lowering the income tax and other taxes such as the capital gains and dividend tax would ultimately draw in more tax revenues. The reason is becuase lower income taxes encourage more spending and lower capital gains and dividend taxes encourage more saving and investing. As people spend more, business and corporate profits go up and along with that the amount of taxes they pay goes up. Also, as people invest more, their capital gain profits and dividend/interest incomes go up, and they end up paying more in taxes that way.

Lower taxes also help grow the economy, for a few reasons. One is that with the greater consumer spending, businesses need to produce more goods. Because of this, they spend more also (which also draws in more tax revenues). Also, in order to produce more goods and grow themselves, the businesses need to hire more people. Therefore the unemployment rate goes down which spurs even more spending/saving/investing. At the same time, lower capital gains/dividend taxes encourage more investing which can lead to more profits for individuals which leads to more spending, etc.

One big reason that we are in a deficit is because government spending (both Republican and Democrat) is too high and too corrupt. First of all we have this War in Iraq which is completely useless and a waste of money. We've spent nearlly $500,000,000,000,000 on the war. Secondly, so many of our Senators and Congressmen cater to their individual towns or states in what is called earmark spending. Our tax dollars go to things that are much less needed then healthcare or education benefits. For example, in one of the mid-west states, I forgot which one, Federal taxpayer dollars went to renovate an airport. This airport was not busy at all, and definitely didn't need the taxpayer dollars to be rebuilt. It averaged about 1 airplane landing an HOUR which happened to be private jets. Did we really need to renovate this airport?

I say, keep taxes low, get rid of useless earmark spending, end the war in Iraq, get rid of subsidies for Oil companies, and spend more on healthcare and education.
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Old 08-13-2007, 02:33 PM   #110
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


I say, keep taxes low, get rid of useless earmark spending, end the war in Iraq, get rid of subsidies for Oil companies, and spend more on healthcare and education.
You can't possibly be a Republican.
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Old 08-13-2007, 03:35 PM   #111
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Infinitum98, I have to finish my term paper before Wednesday, so I'll elaborate on that a bit later.
But thanks for the answer.
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:08 PM   #112
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Originally posted by 2861U2


I dont think you can compare that poll with "Vote for your favorite Beautiful Day artwork." I would think that with the former, people would take that a little more seriously and be a tad more considerate and humane.

I would love to respond to the rest of these points right now, but I really dont want to spend all day on Interference. I leave for school in a few days, and I have a million things to do. Adieu.
Where do you go to school, and what is your major/field of interest?
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:21 PM   #113
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Interference is different. DailyKos is a political blog publishing news with a liberal viewpoint. Interference is a forum with no specific purpose. In other words, there are sub-forums on here to talk about whatever you want to talk about. If someone in here printed the Tony Snow poll above, and a presidential candidate came to a Free Your Mind convention, I would have a problem with that unless that candidate condemned the poll and any other hateful material. Zero of the candidates acknowledged that there are some pretty bad things on the Kos.
If DailyKos were published by a discrete core of individuals then I could see your point. But it isn't; as BVS said, it's by design an open site, and a huge one at that. They presently average 544,632 visits per day, and as of early 2006 they had more than 100,000 members and more than 248 regular 'diarists' posting entries daily--both numbers which have doubtless grown considerably since then. While they do have diary 'guidelines' (per the linked FAQs above), they don't have 'moderators,' so in practice only things which are viewed--and strongly objected to--by large numbers of members are likely to get deleted, something which by their own admission (again, see the FAQs) they strongly prefer to avoid. Now, it is true that their 'main' page (all URLs beginning with dailykos.com/main/...) consists only of 'diaries' written by the site owner and 15 'contributing editors', most of them permanent, a few rotated through annually at his selection. The Tony Snow entry (and the photo) you're referring to, neither of which appear to exist on the site anymore anyhow, were not from the main page--they don't delete those entries--and the 'poll' most likely appeared in the comments section of one of the hundreds of minor 'diaries,' which seems to be where the 'polls' option is normally used. One could just as well--and just as arbitrarily--have chosen the minor diary entry 'Our Prayers Go Out To Tony Snow And Family' as "representative" of DailyKos instead.

Frankly, I think the same problem would apply to your hypothetical 'FYM convention' ( not a bad idea though)--FYM has 336,630 posts and counting, stretching back 7 years, from hundreds of members. No candidate is going to have their staff go through every one of those posts looking for anything they perhaps ought to distance themselves from. If some particular post had somehow drawn national media attention for its 'hatefulness,' OK, then you might expect that to be addressed. Articles from the official Interference main page--OK, fair game. But the fact that you personally went onto DailyKos at some particular point in time and found some particular unsavory 'poll' going on down in one of the hundreds of rabbit holes comprising that labyrinthine site doesn't really mean anything. This is simply a reality of campaigning as we move into an age where the diffuse, decentralized world of the Internet increasingly exerts an influence on the process; it just doesn't make sense to treat items cherry-picked from the entirety of such a sprawling and open site as representative of its 'official' stance.

Good luck with school this year.
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:48 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

If DailyKos were published by a discrete core of individuals then I could see your point. But it isn't; as BVS said, it's by design an open site, and a huge one at that. They presently average 544,632 visits per day, and as of early 2006 they had more than 100,000 members and more than 248 regular 'diarists' posting entries daily--both numbers which have doubtless grown considerably since then. While they do have diary 'guidelines' (per the linked FAQs above), they don't have 'moderators,' so in practice only things which are viewed--and strongly objected to--by large numbers of members are likely to get deleted, something which by their own admission (again, see the FAQs) they strongly prefer to avoid. Now, it is true that their 'main' page (all URLs beginning with dailykos.com/main/...) consists only of 'diaries' written by the site owner and 15 'contributing editors', most of them permanent, a few rotated through annually at his selection. The Tony Snow entry (and the photo) you're referring to, neither of which appear to exist on the site anymore anyhow, were not from the main page--they don't delete those entries--and the 'poll' most likely appeared in the comments section of one of the hundreds of minor 'diaries,' which seems to be where the 'polls' option is normally used. One could just as well--and just as arbitrarily--have chosen the minor diary entry 'Our Prayers Go Out To Tony Snow And Family' as "representative" of DailyKos instead.

Frankly, I think the same problem would apply to your hypothetical 'FYM convention' ( not a bad idea though)--FYM has 336,630 posts and counting, stretching back 7 years, from hundreds of members. No candidate is going to have their staff go through every one of those posts looking for anything they perhaps ought to distance themselves from. If some particular post had somehow drawn national media attention for its 'hatefulness,' OK, then you might expect that to be addressed. Articles from the official Interference main page--OK, fair game. But the fact that you personally went onto DailyKos at some particular point in time and found some particular unsavory 'poll' going on down in one of the hundreds of rabbit holes comprising that labyrinthine site doesn't really mean anything. This is simply a reality of campaigning as we move into an age where the diffuse, decentralized world of the Internet increasingly exerts an influence on the process; it just doesn't make sense to treat items cherry-picked from the entirety of such a sprawling and open site as representative of its 'official' stance.

Good luck with school this year.
In the end if there are approx 15 million who vote and when you divide that by 248 'diraists' or even by members who don't post the voice they represent doesn't amount to much.

There is deception in perception, the same occurs on Interference.Com, but don't tell that to few deluded folk here.

dbs
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:02 PM   #115
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Where do you go to school, and what is your major/field of interest?
Sophomore at Illinois State University, majoring in Criminal Justice.

Look, my point is that I dont think any presidential candidates should associate themselves with such people or groups. Let me tell you that I do not swear or drink, and I try not to make friends or associate with people who swear constantly or go get hammered all the time. I am a Christian, and I try to live like a Christian everyday, constantly. I try to be the exact same person every single day. The Democrats attending YearlyKos should do the same. This isnt about being a good candidate. It's about being a good person- the same person all the time. I dont think the Democrats really want to hang out with the Kos gang, but they are, and they are for political reasons and to get votes. If they want to be known for having been associated with the Lieberman picture and the Tony Snow poll, fine, but we will all find out come next year if the American people are ok with that association.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:04 PM   #116
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Originally posted by 2861U2
but we will all find out come next year if the American people are ok with that association.
Most people have no idea who or what YearlyKos is, and most people have other tests for candidates. You and your perfect friends can wring your hands all you want about it. Most Americans just don't give a shit.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:06 PM   #117
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Originally posted by martha


Most people have no idea who or what YearlyKos is, and most people have other tests for candidates.
You are right.

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YMost Americans just don't give a shit.
Unfortunately, you are right.

Please dont call me or my friends perfect, martha.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:15 PM   #118
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Look, my point is that I dont think any presidential candidates should associate themselves with such people or groups.
I could say the same thing about the extreme Christian right.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:17 PM   #119
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I could say the same thing about the extreme Christian right.
Any candidate that uses religion as an excuse for hate should not be involved in the leadership of this country.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:23 PM   #120
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Originally posted by yolland

The Tony Snow entry (and the photo) you're referring to, neither of which appear to exist on the site anymore anyhow, were not from the main page--they don't delete those entries--and the 'poll' most likely appeared in the comments section of one of the hundreds of minor 'diaries,' which seems to be where the 'polls' option is normally used.
Here's the link to the story/poll.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/13/03723/8431
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