Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

[dazzlingamy]

Why burn the books though? Thats sound an outdated frankly, completely laughable thing to do.

'Ooooh look at us, burning these evil harry potter books, we're so powerful! We live in the dark ages'

I can't believe people still burn books. Thats such a pathetic thing to do. Ban the books, write letters to JK Rowling, get one of your psycho ministers babble on on one of your god damn boring tv shows, but burn a book? What are you 11 yrs old and playing with matches?!

Its the most hilarious thing!! All these men and women standing around a bonfire, slowly watching the harry potter logo melt away feeling some smug satisfation that they 'stuck it to them heathens'

omg i just pissed myself laughing. i can't breathe.

what next? flaming bags of dog poo on the steps of kids houses who you've spied reading the book on the bus home from school?!

 

[Sherry Darling]

Hi Cheryl

Gello darlin

80's: yes, that's a good example. I don't believe the Virgin birth is metaphorical either.

But your example further proves my overall point: you made in that post an *argument* about why isn' t not a metaphor, rather than the 'self explanatory' line. For the record, I have seen arguements elsewhere that the Virgin Birth is metaphorical (ie, a metaphor of Jesus's purity).

Again, my basic point is that ANY reading of ANY text involves an interpretation. You don't seem to disagree with that general point, at least that you've stated here.

When someone tells me he's not interpreting, I wonder what he doesn't want anyone else to consider.....

And I'm repeating myself now, so I'll bow out unless there is confusion about what I've written.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Gello darlin

80's: yes, that's a good example. I don't believe the Virgin birth is metaphorical either.

But your example further proves my overall point: you made in that post an *argument* about why isn' t not a metaphor, rather than the 'self explanatory' line. For the record, I have seen arguements elsewhere that the Virgin Birth is metaphorical (ie, a metaphor of Jesus's purity).

Again, my basic point is that ANY reading of ANY text involves an interpretation. You don't seem to disagree with that general point, at least that you've stated here.

When someone tells me he's not interpreting, I wonder what he doesn't want anyone else to consider.....

And I'm repeating myself now, so I'll bow out unless there is confusion about what I've written.

No confusion here. Very well worded.

 

[hiphop]

I'll defend both. Consistency is a great thing. Burn a flag, flush a Koran, burn Harry Potter.......

by the way, as an outsider to this discussion:

flag burning is a more acceptable form of protest than book burning.

because burning a flag is critisizing a nation and its policies, so it is a form of political protest against something established (not against a minority)

book burning is not critisizing a nation, not critisizing policies, but critisizing facts or fictional stories or a certain view expressed in that book - nazis burned books that were critisizing their wish for absolute power in form of a dictatorship - the burning of harry potter books (as ridiculous as it is) points into the same direction, which is against free expression of ART - a book is a PIECE of ART, NOT a SYMBOL of a NATION and its political power - flushing the koran wasnt a form of protest at all -

that means flag burning and book burning are two entirely differerent concepts of criticism. not that i would burn a flag, but as a form of protest it clearly makes more sense than burning a book.

 

[nbcrusader]

"more acceptable" speech???

Isn't that what we are trying to avoid?

 

[hiphop]

"more acceptable" speech???

Isn't that what we are trying to avoid?

why speech? i said form of protest and referred to the sense of burning a flag in compare to a book as you can clearly see in above post.

do you think burning a book makes as much sense as burning a flag, as a form of political protest? (i mean theoretically, its clear we both wouldn´t resort to that form of protest). remember, a flag is a symbol of a nation/ state and its policies, whereas a book isn´t.

 

[nbcrusader]

Protest is speech.

The protest was not against an author or fictional character, it was against the perceived acceptance of something that goes against their religious beliefs.

 

[Irvine511]

and they're still idiots.

 

[nbcrusader]

And peope call Christians judgmental.....

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Or is that you are allowed to make facetious comments and I am not?

You DEFINITELY win when it comes to facetious comments. I did wonder if you were serious, as it goes, but wasn't 100% after labouring through 14 long pages of the same, neverending little argument. Back off. Alternatively, try talking sense.

At least this shows me you read the book. Did you like it, by the way?

Although it has nothing to do with the discussion whatsoever, I love A Little Princess; it's been a favourite of mine since i was 8 years old.

Just as there are no easy answers to interpreting scripture.

Remember, deciding that there is only one way to read a certain passage IS itself an interpertation, and must be defended just as any other.

That's a good point...

 

[hiphop]

The protest was not against an author or fictional character, it was against the perceived acceptance of something that goes against their religious beliefs.

if I wrote a book and it was burned, i would take it personal. it also goes against the author who created the text.

imo burning books for something that goes against a religious belief is not acceptable. also flushing religious symbols is not acceptable.

imo burning flags for something that goes against a political opinion is acceptable, even if i wouldn´t practise that form of protest and would also advise others not to because it is too extreme. also flushing political symbols is acceptable.

if you fail to see the difference between expressing political opinions and trying to suppress other religions beliefs, i can´t help you.

i think the reason for that may be that you think religious causes should be treated just like political causes. but religious beliefs are connected with a completely different set of freedom values. a religious belief doesn´t depend on a majority or a democracy. everyone is entitled to hold his very own religious "representation", whereas political representation is reached through compromises and majorities.

 

[80sU2isBest]

You DEFINITELY win when it comes to facetious comments. I did wonder if you were serious, as it goes, but wasn't 100% after labouring through 14 long pages of the same, neverending little argument. Back off.

Hostility does not become you.

 

[hiphop]

Protest is speech.

violent protest is speech?

 

[nbcrusader]

What violence?

 

[hiphop]

What violence?

well you made that general statement that protest is speech. i don´t think so. protest can take many forms. i´m just asking if you also include violent protests in your definition of (free) "speech".

you will agree that the Christians didn´t (only) speak out against harry potter books, but also burned them. that form of protest is not what i call speech.

ps. i´m also expecting your reply to the point about differences between politics and religion.

 

[nbcrusader]

Burning a flag is considered protected speech. I would say burning a Harry Potter book is also a form of protected speech.

 

[hiphop]

Burning a flag is considered protected speech.

by who? the US administration? then how come conservatives critisized the palestinians when they burned US flags? could it be they critisized protected speech?

surely, burning a flag is not considered to be "speech" by me- there is a difference in the act of burning and speaking (thats what my european logic says, but maybe the definition in english language is a different one?)

ps. see the ps above

 

[BVS]

80's, thank you for taking the time to rephrase. I have to say, though, the above leaves me with the exact same concern. I am suspicious as soon as I read the phrase 'only one reasonable interpertation'. Why so? Where does Scripture itself say that? Who decides what's a metaphor/allegory and what's "self-explanatory"? One what authority do they do so? A whole host of problems here.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love it when I see people who get it.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Wow. I'm amazed at what kind of discussion a fantasy book generates.

You're not alone on that.

I do apologise for mentioning our fictional friend/mortal enemy (delete as applicable) Harry again; especially in a thread that was initially centred on reactions to his various adventures.

Related story that I heard on the radio recently...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4682519.stm

"A primary school cancelled a Harry Potter day over complaints it could lead children into "areas of evil".

Here's more zealous propaganda, going from bad to worse...

It was with fear and a great sense of shame and guilt that I touched the cover of a Harry Potter book for the first time[...] For weeks I had prayed for guidance, and I hope it was God's will that I saw with my own eyes what is foisted upon the eyes and minds of our children.

I have heard many bad things about these books and movies, there would be countless instances of witchcraft, cursing, brewing of drugs made by boiling alive babies pulled from the earth, sexual congress with goats [...]but what I found was much worse still than I had feared.

Please do not let your children read these books or watch these movies!

I will now tell you why:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter2.htm

The whole Potter-burning hysteria reminds me very much of the equally neurotic reaction to Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. This article is a couple of years old now, but I found it quite revealing. Not to mention amusing.

A little taster for you:

I'm not going to tell you more about the book because, as I said, it is an engaging, interesting story, and I don't want you to read it. So don't be deceived by positive reviews. (I regret to say that I gave The Golden Compass a thumb's up.) Avoid this series altogether. It's a sophomoric anti-Christian diatribe, but dangerous precisely because it is packaged as a fun series of books for young adults. http://www.crowhill.net/journeyman/Vol1No1/Darkmaterials.html

 

[VertigoGal]

by who? the US administration? then how come conservatives critisized the palestinians when they burned US flags? could it be they critisized protected speech?

there's a difference between criticising, and attempting to make an act illegal. as if we have the power to legislate for the Palestinians anyway...although we're not so far off from getting it banned here, are we?

it's anyone's right to burn a flag, and it's anyone's right to burn a harry potter book as long as they pay for it first, I'm only saying it shows the person for the delusional idiot that they are.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

In terms of extreme reaction to JK Rowling's books: this made me laugh...

The Harry Potter Hoax

Regardless of what side of the Harry Potter debate you're on, it pays to check your sources. The writer of this hoax clearly did not do so...

Currently, an email is doing the rounds in which a Christian is trying to warn readers against the alleged evils of the Harry Potter Series. Within the email is the URL of a story on which this person based his or her research:

Still not convinced? I will leave you with something to let you make up your own mind. First the URL to read some background of what I have given you: http://theonion.com/onion3625/harry_potter.htmlOff-site Link ( Harry Potter Books Spark Rise In Satanism Among Children [sic]

If the author of that email would had ''researched'' just a bit more carefully, he or she may have observed that the current edition of The Onion, which bills itself as ''America's Finest News Source,'' includes the following news reports:

* New Orleans Adopts $10 Cover Charge
NEW ORLEANS--New Orleans announced plans Monday to impose a $10 cover charge on all nonresidents seeking to enter the city.
* Area Man's Recommended Daily Caloric Intake Exceeded By 9 A.M.
* Jury Finds Defendant Pretty
* Christian Right Lobbies To Overturn Second Law Of Thermodynamics
* An infographic on what the government is doing to combat the western wildfiresOff-site Link (One suggestion: Bomb Iraq).

That was fun. Someone with sense!

Then there's this little gem:

Harry Potter:
Witchcraft Repackaged
Making Evil Look Innocent
Only $18.99 at AMF Christian Videos
Price

USD $18.99

Harry Potter hysteria has gripped America and Europe with Harry Potter books, Harry Potter movies, Harry Potter trading cards, Harry Potter games, Harry Potter posters, and much more. What is the driving force behind such a movement? Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged is a video exposing the darkness behind the Harry Potter frenzy. Find out for yourself if the Harry Potter craze is innocent or is actually evil made to look innocent.

Harry Potter isn't all fun and games. There is growing concern that the Harry Potter craze has a dark side - and rightly so. What is presented as fantasy in these stories is all too real in the world of paganism.

Viewers will discover that these stories are filled with occult symbols and contain many similarities with occult practices such as black magic, curses & spells, divination & sorcery, occult symbology, spirit possession, mother goddess worship, evolution & reincarnation, seasonal nature celebrations, and communing with the dead & spirit world.

Made to look innocent, the evil present in these products desensitizes children to the tools and language of the occult while opening the doorway of the mind to deception. These stories blur the lines between good and evil, teaching that the source for both is the same, contrary to the Word of God.

With actual footage of occult practices, witchcraft religious rites, and interviews with WICCA practitioners, best-selling authors Robert S. McGee and Caryl Matrisciana provide an in-depth examination of the messages, symbols, and teachings, found in the Harry Potter stories.

Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged
- Making Evil Look Innocent $18.99
Available On VHS Video Cassette Tapes
Video Run Time Approximately 60 Minutes
Usually Ships Within 48 Hours
http://www.amfchristianvideos.com/Harry_Potter_Witchcraft_Repackaged.htm

To sum it up:

ALAMOGORDO, New Mexico (Reuters) - A New Mexico church plans to burn Harry Potter books because they are "an abomination to God," the church pastor said on Wednesday.

Pastor Jack Brock said he would have a "holy bonfire" on Sunday at the Christ Community Church in Alamogordo in southern New Mexico to torch books about the fictional teen-age wizard who is wildly popular with young people.

"These books encourage our youth to learn more about witches, warlocks, and sorcerers, and those things are an abomination to God and to me," Brock, 74, told Reuters.

"Harry Potter books are going to destroy the lives of many young people."

The books, written by British author J.K. Rowling, have been runaway bestsellers and a movie, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone," is currently a blockbuster hit.

Brock, whose said his Christmas Eve sermon was titled "The Baby Jesus or Harry Potter?," described the book burning as part of an effort to encourage Christians to remove everything from their homes that prevents them from communicating with God.
http://www.gainesvillehumanists.org/potter.htm

Where on earth is the logic, sanity, common sense and separation of fact and fiction in the last 2 articles quoted above??

 

[financeguy]

Indeed, what these people rather amusingly forget is that Satan is an invention of the Christian religion.

So actually if you trace it back, they are attacking the mythology of their own religion.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Indeed, what these people rather amusingly forget is that Satan is an invention of the Christian religion.

So actually if you trace it back, they are attacking the mythology of their own religion.

That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially since Christians don't believe he is an "invention of the Christian religion".

And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.

 

[Irvine511]

That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially since Christians don't believe he is an "invention of the Christian religion".

And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.

how myopic.

no other religion has a character named Satan. thus, he was invented by the Christian religion.

that whole fact vs. truth thing again.

which isn't to say he isn't real. i personally could care less. i don't give a shit about Satan, and really don't think he exists, so he holds no power over me. yet ... he seems to be in your thoughts, you're constantly on the lookout, so perhaps he's controling your life more than you'd like?

 

[AvsGirl41]

You're not alone on that.

I do apologise for mentioning our fictional friend/mortal enemy (delete as applicable) Harry again; especially in a thread that was initially centred on reactions to his various adventures.



Here's more zealous propaganda, going from bad to worse...

Wow. I'd swear an uber-English major wrote that. I'll bet anything she was once quite the literary critic as an undergrad...except for the small fact that it is CrAzY!

I like how the evil character became Jesus and Ginny the Virgin Mary, and Potter is the devil.

I guess my soul is ok, since Lucius Malfoy is one of my favorite characters (I have a serious thing for him in the films, Jason Isaacs ) and sometimes, I secretly root for him. All this time, he's actually the angel Gabriel!

Thanks for posting that.

 

[BVS]

And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.

Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)...Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:38-44)

 

[80sU2isBest]

how myopic.

no other religion has a character named Satan. thus, he was invented by the Christian religion.

He's not an invention of the Christian religion if he really does exist.

which isn't to say he isn't real. i personally could care less. i don't give a shit about Satan, and really don't think he exists, so he holds no power over me. yet ... he seems to be in your thoughts, you're constantly on the lookout, so perhaps he's controling your life more than you'd like?

He doesn't control my life, Irvine, and it's precisely because I DO keep a look out for him. I know his tricks; I know what my weaknesses are, and i know his seductions and the way he tries to take advantage of my weaknesses. I am bought with the blood of Jesus, and in his strength and power alone do I trust. He is able to deliver me from evil, and he does.

Maybe you don't give a s*** about the devil, but don't you realize that if he does exist, you're playing right into his hands? Don't you see that if he does exist, he doesn't want you to believe in him?

Next to believing that Christ is not the son of God, the greatest thing that Satan can get you to believing is that he himself is not real. If you don't believe in Satan, you will not see the need for a savior named Jesus Christ.

 

[Irvine511]

He's not an invention of the Christian religion if he really does exist.

He doesn't control my life, Irvine, and it's precisely because I DO keep a look out for him. I know his tricks; I know what my weaknesses are, and i know his seductions and the way he tries to take advantage of my weaknesses. I am bought with the blood of Jesus, and in his strength and power alone do I trust. He is able to deliver me from evil, and he does.

Maybe you don't give a s*** about the devil, but don't you realize that if he does exist, you're playing right into his hands? Don't you see that if he does exist, he doesn't want you to believe in him?

Next to believing that Christ is not the son of God, the greatest thing that Satan can get you to believing is that he himself is not real. If you don't believe in Satan, you will not see the need for a savior named Jesus Christ.

you don't do abstractions well, do you?

in any event, thanks for the tips.

for now, while you're looking under the bed and behind the couches for Satan, i am going to get up each and every morning and try my best to be the best person i know how to be, to work as hard as i can, and to try and help the lives of the people around me, to work for change each and every day in real and measurable ways, and i'll let God -- or whoever, or whatever, or nothing -- sort it all out when it's all over.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Thanks for posting that.

Well, I thought we could do with a bit of a laugh, instead of a ton of pointless paranoia.

Just scouring the murky depths of the net to see if I can locate any other amusing articles:

nothing yet... but this is a site I really like. It's full of well structured and articulate essays:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/hp_essays/

 

[80sU2isBest]

Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:38-44)

No contradiction there at all. Satan is the ultimate enemy. When Christ says to not strike back in revenge, he is definitely talking about in our human relationships; he is not talking about Satan. We can't take revenge against Satan - only Christ can defeat Satan and he has already done that.

And our battle is indeed with Satan, our enemy. On more than one occasion, Christ let us know that Satan is the enmy, and Paul told us that our battle was not with flesh (other humans), but with the dark forces of Satan.