Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

[80sU2isBest]

I like to drink my own piss.

That's nice. Does it taste like beer?

 

[Halifax]

That's nice. Does it taste like beer?

Not really. I was a bit suprised how warm it tasted.

 

[Halifax]

Sorry people. Seeing how this discussion is so heated that no logical conclusion is in sight, I just wanted to "break the ice".

You can continue your political/theological/freedom of speech slugfest now...

 

[financeguy]

You've got a good point.

When someone apologizes, I forgive. When they don't, it takes me a little longer to do so.

However, that's no excuse. I'm supposed to forgive even if I don't get an apology.

So, I'm going to forgive and try not to think about it anymore or bring it up.

In the meantime, I owe Indra an apology for not forgiving her sooner, so I do. I apologize, and I mean it.

I was told by a conservative Roman Catholic on another forum than the Christian is not obligated to forgive his detractors, that it is only up to God to forgive. It is to your credit that you do not subscribe to that particular form of 'theology'.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Not really. I was a bit suprised how warm it tasted.

Beer is served warm in Germany, so maybe there is a connection...

 

[80sU2isBest]

I was told by a conservative Roman Catholic on another forum than the Christian is not obligated to forgive his detractors, that it is only up to God to forgive. It is to your credit that you do not subscribe to that particular form of 'theology'.

Thanks. Christ tells us to forgive, so that's all I need to know.

Christ forgave those people who hung him a cross, and they didn't aplogize first. Honestly, teher's nothing that's ever been done ot me that I could really call "offensive" compared to what they did to Christ, or what my sins did to Christ.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Or at least give the opportunity to express hated with terms like "Christofacsists" or "Christian Taliban"

I see "Islamofacists" used all the time here and in the media to distinguish between peaceable Muslims and violent ones. Why should our faith be exempt, NBC or 80's?

That said, the point that you can't honestly compare a violent group with non-violent group (however unreasonable, backwards, biggoted, etc) is well taken. I think this discussion could benefit some from point sides acknowleding the fair-enough points that have been made.

Sparkygrrl, your post = I people who care about books.

80's, there is no such thing as reading without interpreting. If you CHOSE to read a particular passage literally, that itself IS an interpretation.

Indra, thank you.

Now, if ya'll muggles will excuse me, I just got my copy of HP and the Half Blood Prince.

 

[melon]

What's your point, melon? I know that Christ said that.

My point is that if someone ordinarily said "You are my friend if you do everything I say," that doesn't sound like a friend to me. That sounds like an abusive husband.

Melon

 

[80sU2isBest]

80's, there is no such thing as reading without interpreting. If you CHOSE to read a particular passage literally, that itself IS an interpretation.

Sherry, allow me to rephrase. There are many things in the Bible that have meanings that are explicitly spelled out and therefore have only one reasonable interpretation. For example, Christ told many parables. For most of these, he left the meaning for others to figure out, but on some he told the meaning. Or for a more basic example, the Bible tells us that Christ was born of a virgin. That's pretty self-explanatory. Now, you could interpret that any way you want, but it was explicitly spelled out in scripture, so any other interpretation other than the explicitly speleld out meaning would be wrong.

 

[BVS]

Poor Harry, everyone's ignoring him now.

 

[phanan]

Wow. I'm amazed at what kind of discussion a fantasy book generates.

 

[XHendrix24]

I was told by a conservative Roman Catholic on another forum than the Christian is not obligated to forgive his detractors, that it is only up to God to forgive. It is to your credit that you do not subscribe to that particular form of 'theology'.

Just to clarify, I don't believe what that person said is indicative of typical Roman Catholic theology. Being a Roman Catholic myself, I'm kind of surprised one would take that stand on the issue. Personally, I think most Catholics (including myself) would side with 80's as far as that goes.

I see "Islamofacists" used all the time here and in the media to distinguish between peaceable Muslims and violent ones. Why should our faith be exempt, NBC or 80's?

Well, it seems like a number of people here have seen that term used on this forum before. I, however, am not one of those people. I must not be looking in the right threads.

If I would have known that, I could've at least seen that those terms originated with a purpose instead of merely out of hate. That being said, I still stand by my point that any term like that is inappropriate and shouldn't be used by reasonable people in a debate, no matter what the reason for using it may be.

Also, I'd like to point out something that I don't believe I've seen around here yet. Especially in this thread, I've seen a few people mention specific parts of the Bible where Jesus told people how to behave respectably and live a good life in God's eyes. I'm referencing the "love one another" and "love God" quotes especially. If no one minds, I'd like to add one more quote to these. This is a quote that I think is often forgotten by most people, including myself. It kind of ties in with "love one another," but I think it's worth specifying because I often see the arguments here heat up to a point where people start to insult each other without thinking first. Anyway, I think it's best to let the quote speak for itself.

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." (Luke 6:27)

 

[sallycinnamon78]

The Bible says to stay away from sorcery and witchcraft. These people are taking a stand for their beliefs. You call them mentally deranged for that?
[/B]

Perhaps they are poor misguided fools? Who knows. Who cares, apart from them?

Personally, I certainly would not knoeck people for defending what they believe to be right - that's what life is all about. What I do object to is people who cannot tell the difference etween fact and fiction.

Heeeere's Harry:

Just when you thought it was safe to start surfing again... more Potter hysteria! In a reversal of the old saying: it would be TRAGIC if it wasn't so funny!

"The pressure to participate in the fun and frenzy is intense. So what can a Christian child do in the midst of such hype, hypocrisy and popular wizardry? Those who know God can find answers in His Word. Consider this list of Biblical warnings and wisdom, then put on the Armor of God and pray that He lead you in His way."



Oh, absolutely. Dear Lord Almighty, please forgive me for READING A WORK OF FICTION and enjoying it. Please save the younger generations from using their imaginations and learning to be creative; after all, children educating themselves through reading voluntarily is such a hideous sin, and a terrible danger to society. I see where I have gone wrong in encouraging my little nieces to be literate. I am sure we will all go to hell for allowing our children to learn about mythical creatures, based on ancient fables, thereby developing their knowledge of Greek, Roman, Celtic, Egyptian, Native American, Japanese, Chinese, and Babylonian Mythology. Most of all, forgive these children for reading a series which clearly emphasises the value of loyalty, love, friendship, honesty, integrity, teamwork, academic prowess, and all those other traits that are valueless and should be eradicated from society.

I would go on, but I have no time for nincompoops with no grasp on reality.

The Harry Potter books are FICTION, correct?! I'm not going to bother getting into the ridiculous, prejudiced rubbish I've heard about these books promoting evil... it would be an neverending rant, and I believe it is futile to attempt to reason with the terminally stupid. If these extremists put their energy into something cnstructive to help make the world a better place, rather than getting delirious over a storybook, we might get somewhere.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

I am going to print this thread off and burn it.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

I like to drink my own piss.

Thanks for sharing. Better your own than someone else's, I suppose!

let me tell you something:

i am currently helping to produce a series of educational DVDs about math. the company i work for believes that a big potential market for this particular education product will be home-schoolers. the business assumption -- which comes from research -- is that the majority of home schoolers in the US are of a fundamentalist Christian stripe and will not purchase anything that goes against a specific worldview. and we know what the specifics are, because marketing and research has laid it all out for us. we cannot have any of the following things in our programs:

-- no tattoos
-- no mention of "evolution"
-- no mention of "contraversial" science, i.e., the age of the earth, when the dinosaurs lived, etc.
-- some claims must always be prefaced by, "Some scientists believe that ..."
-- no card games
-- no billards
-- no horse racing

That really is scary!

 

[sallycinnamon78]

I am going to print this thread off and burn it.

You'd better not do that MVD... it means, obviously, that you are an EVIL pagan promoting the Dark Arts, as some witchcraft traditions utilise fire in their spellcasting.

I'm going to run away now before one of the Fundamentalist Pagans turns me into a snake... which, naturally, they will have learned from.... HARRY POTTER! THE DEVIL INCARNATE!

Okay, 6am here - it is now my bedtime. Good luck to anyone who is still in this thread... judging by the tone of the last 13 pages, you're going to need it.

 

[AvsGirl41]

i am currently helping to produce a series of educational DVDs about math. the company i work for believes that a big potential market for this particular education product will be home-schoolers. the business assumption -- which comes from research -- is that the majority of home schoolers in the US are of a fundamentalist Christian stripe and will not purchase anything that goes against a specific worldview. and we know what the specifics are, because marketing and research has laid it all out for us. we cannot have any of the following things in our programs:

You know, I can also vouch for this. I was home schooled, for non-religious reasons, and some of the catalogs we used to get were extreme, to be polite about it.

The one that sticks in my head was a children's anatomy book--already cutsey cartoony since it was for young children, but it came with a warning that it was anatomically correct, but the drawings could be easily covered with a sticker.

There's not much education going on with many homeschoolers, that's for sure.

 

[80sU2isBest]

You'd better not do that MVD... it means, obviously, that you are an EVIL pagan promoting the Dark Arts, as some witchcraft traditions utilise fire in their spellcasting.

I'm going to run away now before one of the Fundamentalist Pagans turns me into a snake... which, naturally, they will have learned from.... HARRY POTTER! THE DEVIL INCARNATE!

Okay, 6am here - it is now my bedtime. Good luck to anyone who is still in this thread... judging by the tone of the last 13 pages, you're going to need it.

Actually, the real reason she better not burn the thread is because that will mean she is comparable to the Nazis, who also burned things...

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Actually, the real reason she better not burn the thread is because that will mean she is comparable to the Nazis, who also burned things...

80's, sweetheart, I didn't mean to shit in your Cheerios, so keep your wig on.

It was obvious that what I said there was a load of nonsense. I was prodding gently at those who can't unclench enough to realise how ridiculous they sound by being militant about every single teensy weensy little comment. Particularly when those little tantrums, which go on for approximately 12 or 13 pages pointlessly, have sweet FA to do with the original subject of the thread.

Incidentally, I think yimou summed this all up quite succinctly on the first page of this thread with the quote from JK Rowling:

from an interview with JK Rowling in the Vancouver Sun, 26 Oct. 2000:

So far, despite all the odds, Potter and the forces of virtue and decency have triumphed. The moral significance seems clear.

''It does to you,'' says Rowling. ''And to me it's so blindingly obvious. But when this first became an issue I would take an enormous amount of time to explain what I thought was so obvious.

''Now I am starting to get impatient because I feel that you can lead a fool to a book but you can't make them think. And you can quote me, actually, because I'm just getting impatient about it.''

[...]

Harry, of course, is able to battle supernatural evil with supernatural forces of his own, and Rowling is quite clear that she doesn't personally believe in that kind of magic -- ''not at all.'' Is she a Christian?

''Yes, I am,'' she says. ''Which seems to offend the religious right far worse than if I said I thought there was no God. Every time I've been asked if I believe in God, I've said yes, because I do, but no one ever really has gone any more deeply into it than that, and I have to say that does suit me, because if I talk too freely about that I think the intelligent reader, whether 10 or 60, will be able to guess what's coming in the books.''

Now, friend, chill out - or I shall stir my cauldron and turn you into a frog.

 

[indra]

You know, I can also vouch for this. I was home schooled, for non-religious reasons, and some of the catalogs we used to get were extreme, to be polite about it.

The one that sticks in my head was a children's anatomy book--already cutsey cartoony since it was for young children, but it came with a warning that it was anatomically correct, but the drawings could be easily covered with a sticker.

There's not much education going on with many homeschoolers, that's for sure.

Some people on my road home schooled their kids (probably still doing it -- this family seems to want to populate the entire world ) cause they didn't want their kids associating with secular kids and learning "undesirable" stuff.

One day my mum gave a couple of the boys a James Herriot book (you know the "All Creatures Great and Small" series, about a veterinarian) -- a few days later she asked them how they liked it. The snickered and hemmed and hawed a bit -- turns out they though it was a "dirty" book because there were some livestock birthing scenes. These were teenagers!

Anyway, jump forward a few years... both of these kids (now adults) have served time in jail for multiple offenses...one, along with his wife, were convicted for beating their child to death.

Does that story mean all home schooled kids are going to grow up and be felons? Nope. But it isn't going to prevent it either.

 

[indra]

I didn't mean to shit in your Cheerios

You shit in people's cereal? What a wicked woman you are!

 

[sallycinnamon78]

You shit in people's cereal? What a wicked woman you are!

Only occasionally.

I think that this thread needs either a swift kick up the jacksy, or the occasional use of common sense. Never mind.

 

[deep]

Perhaps the people who waited in line to buy these evil books should be declared "unlawful".

We can detain them until they tell us what their true evil purposes are.

 

[80sU2isBest]

80's, sweetheart, I didn't mean to shit in your Cheerios, so keep your wig on.

It was obvious that what I said there was a load of nonsense. I was prodding gently at those who can't unclench enough to realise how ridiculous they sound by being militant about every single teensy weensy little comment. Particularly when those little tantrums, which go on for approximately 12 or 13 pages pointlessly, have sweet FA to do with the original subject of the thread.

You Keep YOUR wig on. I knew you weren't being serious.

It was obvious that I wasn't being serious, either; I was making fun of those who compare the book burners to Nazis. Did you not read the whole thread?

Or is that you are allowed to make facetious comments and I am not?

 

[Sherry Darling]

Sherry, allow me to rephrase. There are many things in the Bible that have meanings that are explicitly spelled out and therefore have only one reasonable interpretation. For example, Christ told many parables. For most of these, he left the meaning for others to figure out, but on some he told the meaning. Or for a more basic example, the Bible tells us that Christ was born of a virgin. That's pretty self-explanatory. Now, you could interpret that any way you want, but it was explicitly spelled out in scripture, so any other interpretation other than the explicitly speleld out meaning would be wrong.

80's, thank you for taking the time to rephrase. I have to say, though, the above leaves me with the exact same concern. I am suspicious as soon as I read the phrase 'only one reasonable interpertation'. Why so? Where does Scripture itself say that? Who decides what's a metaphor/allegory and what's "self-explanatory"? One what authority do they do so? A whole host of problems here. Of course, the Church (Catholics, Protestants, everyone) has wrestled with these questions since its formation, and will likely always do so, since there aren't any easy answers to the above. Just as there are no easy answers to interpreting scripture.

Remember, deciding that there is only one way to read a certain passage IS itself an interpertation, and must be defended just as any other.

Financyguy, sorry for the hijack. If you want us to stick to Harry, I'm happy to discuss this elsewhere with those who wish.

 

[hiphop]

Hi Cheryl

 

[80sU2isBest]

80's, thank you for taking the time to rephrase. I have to say, though, the above leaves me with the exact same concern. I am suspicious as soon as I read the phrase 'only one reasonable interpertation'. Why so? Where does Scripture itself say that? Who decides what's a metaphor/allegory and what's "self-explanatory"? One what authority do they do so? A whole host of problems here. Of course, the Church (Catholics, Protestants, everyone) has wrestled with these questions since its formation, and will likely always do so, since there aren't any easy answers to the above. Just as there are no easy answers to interpreting scripture.

Remember, deciding that there is only one way to read a certain passage IS itself an interpertation, and must be defended just as any other.

Let's take the example of the Virgin Birth, which is not really something that, as far as I can tell, has ever been argued as having a metaphorical meaning. Many people say it just didn't happen, but frankly I've never heard of anyone saying that the virgin birth was a metaphor for anything else.

But let's assume someone asked me how I am so sure it's not a metaphor. I'd tell them:

First, it doesn't match up to the style of stories in the Bible that are commonly thought of as metaphors/allegories in the Bible, such as the parables Jesus told and the book of Revelation.

Secondly, Christ's disciples and apostles talked about it and wrote about it (the books in our Bible) as if it were a real event.

Thirdly, the prophets that came before before Christ prophecied that he would be born of a virgin.

And it's not just the virgin birth that obviously only has one meaning. There are so many others. Take for instance when the Bible says that Christ prayed in the Garden of Gesthemane while his disciples slept. What other meaning could it possibly have, and why would anyone suspect that it had a different meaning than the explicitly laid-out meaning?

 

[nbcrusader]

I thought it was a response to the people on this forum who keep using terms like "Islamofascists" and so on.

And we go tit for tat between Islam and Christianity for no reason at all.

I think we gotten so hung up on our standard arguments and positions that many discussions simply cannot take place here.

 

[Irvine511]

boy, am i glad i went to pub trivia last night (and won) instead of participating.

the persecution complexes on many in here is a sight to behold.

hats off to Sherry. great posts.

80s: grow up.

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s: grow up.

What exactly are you referring to, Irvine? In what way have I not acted "grown up"?

Whatever it is, it's odd that you tell me to grow up but say nothing to the people who call the book burners "mentally deranged" and compare them to the Nazis, the KKK and the Taliban.