Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

[80sU2isBest]

Then quite simply these peoples' belief is wrong in this case. Harry Potter no more promotes sorcery and witchcraft than Star Wars "promotes" using the force or The Lord of the Rings "promotes" fighting the undead.

It is a work of fantasy and fiction whose central theme is the fight between good and evil. You would think Christians wouldn't be so upset at that.

Whether they are right or wrong is not the issue with me. The issue with me is the reactionary comments, calling them mentally deranged comparing them to Nazis, The Talbin, and the KKK.

Good grief, the decision of liberal judges to allow imenent domain by private industry raised less fuss than this topic, and it's much more important. But you didn't see me calling those judges "communists".

 

[Kieran McConville]

So why bother responding?

Oh I'm sorry, did I say the wrong thing? Alright, it's a very important debate then. Happy?

Also, my original post made quite clear the one reason why I AM responding.

 

[BVS]

Whether they are right or wrong is not the issue with me. The issue with me is the reactionary comments, calling them mentally deranged...

Yet no one has really challenged my rebuttals...

 

[cardosino]

deranged - To upset the normal condition or functioning of.

Convenient you left out the "mentally" part.

deranged - To disturb mentally; make insane.

But hey that have every right, but yes I stand by the fact that they are not functioning on a normal adult logic.

Logic is objective, it works on absolutes, 1's and 0's. Here we are dealing with your subjective opinion, since the "logic" of what these people are doing cannot be empirically measured to a pre-defined set of standards, it is impossible for you to assess that they are "not functioning on a normal adult logic", what you are expressing is just another opinion, nothing more.

Of course, maybe you can actually back up your assertion somehow that what you posted is more than just the yang to their yin, as far as I can tell you're just the other extreme, a mirror image.

A wise man once said: "There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't".

 

[anitram]

Yet no one has really challenged my rebuttals...

BVS, you have not been paying attention, paying attention (thank you, Thom Yorke). This thread is about SEMANTICS. Not about Harry Potter. But about who chose which lateral comparison and then the non sequitur that followed each of them.

So you will get no rebuttal from anyone.

Grim.

 

[indra]

I wonder if the book burners themselves would defend others' right to burn Bibles or flags?

 

[BluRmGrl]

Frankly, I'm glad these folks got airtime on CNN, burning copies of Harry Potter.


Makes it sooo much easier for me to identify those who, IN MY OPINION, are mental midgets. And now that I know who they are, I can avoid their company. If for no other reason than that, I support a person's right to burn a book or a flag or an effigy - whatever.


And the only foray I'm going to make into the "is it an expression of fear or an expression of opinion" debate is this: If the only goal is to say to the world 'Hey - I think Harry Potter promotes evil and is detrimental to children & I beseech you not to read it!', then why not a peaceful, non-incendiary protests outside bookstores and the like? Make some signs, chant a catchy slogan, etc. Why burn a pile of books unless your message is actually 'This story is so vile and putrid, the only way to fight its evil is to burn as many copies as we can - irradicate them from the Earth!' ?????? Why the overkill? And I'm asking because I really want to know -- I'm not just trying to stir up a hornet's nest here.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Yet no one has really challenged my rebuttals...

What rebuttal?

 

[BVS]

Convenient you left out the "mentally" part.

deranged - To disturb mentally; make insane.

Um, no. First you make the comparison with your child and a mental DISORDER, but I don't think you would call your child insane. Mentally deranged does not mean INSANE.

Logic is objective, it works on absolutes, 1's and 0's. Here we are dealing with your subjective opinion, since the "logic" of what these people are doing cannot be empirically measured to a pre-defined set of standards, it is impossible for you to assess that they are "not functioning on a normal adult logic", what you are expressing is just another opinion, nothing more.

Of course, maybe you can actually back up your assertion somehow that what you posted is more than just the yang to their yin, as far as I can tell you're just the other extreme, a mirror image.

A wise man once said: "There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't".

So one can't assess normal adult logic? You just said it's objective, that it works on absolutes. So how does this make sense?

You have 5 items that are same, just different names, colors, and time periods, but you only label one as being evil? How is this logical? Please tell me.

 

[BVS]

What rebuttal?

The fact that the fairy tales these parents grew up with and the movies they take their children to are the same exact stories yet somehow aren't evil enough to burn...I see no logic in that. Do you?

 

[BVS]

BVS, you have not been paying attention, paying attention (thank you, Thom Yorke). This thread is about SEMANTICS. Not about Harry Potter. But about who chose which lateral comparison and then the non sequitur that followed each of them.

So you will get no rebuttal from anyone.

Grim.

True.

 

[financeguy]

Oh I'm sorry, did I say the wrong thing? Alright, it's a very important debate then. Happy?

Also, my original post made quite clear the one reason why I AM responding.

Pseudo 'intellectual' twat.

 

[cardosino]

So one can't assess normal adult logic? You just said it's objective, that it works on absolutes. So how does this make sense?

You have 5 items that are same, just different names, colors, and time periods, but you only label one as being evil? How is this logical? Please tell me.

You've lost it.

 

[MadelynIris]

Makes it sooo much easier for me to identify those who, IN MY OPINION, are mental midgets

Unless you have a photographic memory, it seems that it would be impossible to ever realize if you run into one of these mental midgets ever again.

Unless your grouping 'all christians' up with these folks.

 

[Irvine511]

Unless your grouping 'all christians' up with these folks.

everyone on this board goes to great lengths to distinguish between different stripes of Christianity, and even to spell out the rather obvious implied point that, no, these are not *all* christians. the only people who ever use the word "all christians" are the christians themselves who are out looking to be offended and to increase their persecution/victim complex.

 

[BVS]

You've lost it.

You made a huge contradiction in your response and this is all you can come up with...nice rebuttal.

 

[wizard2c]

Cripes, they're at it again.

Can someone explain to me why they don't arrange burnings of the Tolkien Lord of the Rings series? I mean weren't their wizards in Lord of the Rings too?

I believe Lord of the Rings is quite involved.....based much upon Christianity. Being a great Tolkien follower.....one cannot compare Harry Potter to it at all. Being a wizard myself......yes....wizards travel and side of good and evil.......but then...doesn't the rest of humanity and Middle Earth?

carol
wizard2c

 

[80sU2isBest]

The fact that the fairy tales these parents grew up with and the movies they take their children to are the same exact stories yet somehow aren't evil enough to burn...I see no logic in that. Do you?

There are definitely fairy tales I wouldn't tell to my kids; the Brothers Grimm sure told some grim tales. For instance, Hansel and Gretel would be right out.

However, I wouldn't burn the books. Nor would I burn the Harry Potter books.

But whether I would or not has never been the point for me. They ahe a right to do it, and to call them "mentally deranged" and "the taliban" andcomparing them to the Nazis and the KKK is way off base.

 

[80sU2isBest]

everyone on this board goes to great lengths to distinguish between different stripes of Christianity, and even to spell out the rather obvious implied point that, no, these are not *all* christians. the only people who ever use the word "all christians" are the christians themselves who are out looking to be offended and to increase their persecution/victim complex.

Yeah, Irvine goes to great length to distinguish between Christians. Those Christians who believe that every word in the Bible is true are "dangerous".

 

[BVS]

There are definitely fairy tales I wouldn't tell to my kids; the Brothers Grimm sure told some grim tales. For instance, Hansel and Gretel would be right out.

However, I wouldn't burn the books. Nor would I burn the Harry Potter books.

But whether I would or not has never been the point for me. They ahe a right to do it, and to call them "mentally deranged" and "the taliban" andcomparing them to the Nazis and the KKK is way off base.

Once again no one is questioning their right, when has anyone done that. Why is that still being brought up?

I'm not talking about those fairy tales...
But when you take your kids to Star Wars - same exact story good vs evil with the elements of the 'force' rather than witchcraft, Sleep Beauty had withches, Wizard of Oz had withches, etc etc...

The fact that they can't see this I have to question their ability to function with normal adult logic.

 

[BluRmGrl]

Unless you have a photographic memory, it seems that it would be impossible to ever realize if you run into one of these mental midgets ever again.

Unless your grouping 'all christians' up with these folks.

Obviously, I can't remember the face of every person I ever see. I was just make a snarky comment...

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never mentioned Christians, Muslims, Hindus, agnostics, whatever. I have no intention of making sweeping generalizations as I'm fully aware that the extremists of an organization - no matter how much in the minority they may be - are the one who usually get attention from the media. That doesn't mean they represent their organization as a whole, or at all in some cases.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Once again no one is questioning their right, when has anyone done that. Why is that still being brought up?

I'm not talking about those fairy tales...
But when you take your kids to Star Wars - same exact story good vs evil with the elements of the 'force' rather than witchcraft, Sleep Beauty had withches, Wizard of Oz had withches, etc etc...

The fact that they can't see this I have to question their ability to function with normal adult logic.

How do you know how they feel about Star Wars and the rest? Have you asked them?

 

[BVS]

How do you know how they feel about Star Wars and the rest? Have you asked them?

Point is why aren't they burning these? Part of adult logic would be consistancy, why is it just Harry Potter? Throughout this thread the inconsistancies have been shown, all the other popular stories for kids that have the same exact story but haven't been burned. Truth is Harry Potter is the only book burned by these groups over the years...

 

[MaxFisher]

I agree that it is hypocritical of evangelicals to celebrate Narnia and Lord of the Rings but not Harry Potter.

I think burning books is stupid but I support the act as freedom of speech.

Calling a certain group of people the "Taliban" because you disagree with them is sophomoric.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Wow.

Such a chance here for an important debate, and yet so much tit-for-tat (no, YOU answer MY question, MY point is this, I won't respond to other points )

Here a few thoughts from a liberal Christian lit. geek.

Antriam's point that a Christian's time is better spent serving his "least brothers" is well taken and should be emphasized.

I'd also like to emphasize, not as a Christian but as a Tolkein fan and lit. teacher, that LOTR is NOT an allegory. Tolkein went to great lenghts to make this point in numerous interviews and reflectinos on his work. As has been pointed out here, he made this criticism of Lewis's Narnia. Allegories, Chrisitan or otherwise, tend to be a bit reductive and ham-handed. LOTR is far more than an allegory--though is does have some Chrisitian, Arthurian and Celtic background of course. This is nit-picky, I realize, but that's what fans do I guess.

Finally, do these folks have the legal right to burn books? Well, yes, I suppose so, just as flag-burners do. Basic rationality, though, suggests that putting $ into JKR's pocket is self-defeating. Just as it suggests that not being able to see the basic logical contradictions that BVS has aptly noted is childish. So too is judging a book that one hasn't read (just common sense here...the book is sinful, no...why would they read it?)

And regarding Nazi comparisons, it is totally legit to recognize the historical FACT that 1. these folks are burning books and 2. Nazis did as well. If they wish to avoid Nazi comparisons, they should choose another method. It's also legit and even wise to note that such legal yet fanatical actions are how things like the Holocaust begin. Now, do I think it's likely at all that such book burnings here will lead to a holocaust against non-Christians (or "bad" Christians). Not at all--happily, these book-burners are in the fringe minority, and to argue that one WILL lead to the another is the slippery slope fallacy. But noting potential early warning signs of a potential violent conflict is valid IMHO.

Anyway, my thoughts.

 

[melon]

everyone on this board goes to great lengths to distinguish between different stripes of Christianity, and even to spell out the rather obvious implied point that, no, these are not *all* christians. the only people who ever use the word "all christians" are the christians themselves who are out looking to be offended and to increase their persecution/victim complex.

Yes. Doesn't that explain "Christofascists," "Christianists," and the "Christian Taliban"?

I really love that last term myself.

Melon

 

[nbcrusader]

Funny how the people who defend flag burnings ridicule this act of free speech (as silly as it may be).

 

[melon]

Funny how the people who defend flag burnings ridicule this act of free speech (as silly as it may be).

It's equally funny that those who want to ban flag burning defend book burning as "free speech."

Melon

 

[BVS]

Funny how the people who defend flag burnings ridicule this act of free speech (as silly as it may be).

Well I defend a lot of free speech that I find ridiculous or don't agree with, isn't this the point of free speech. What would be the point of defending only the speech you agree with?

But yes this should be ridiculed it's just helping the author they fear 2x over. First they bought the books giving the author money, and then free advertising for the book. Ha, I didn't even know the new one was out until this thread.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And regarding Nazi comparisons, it is totally legit to recognize the historical FACT that 1. these folks are burning books and 2. Nazis did as well. If they wish to avoid Nazi comparisons, they should choose another method.

When these people burn the Harry Potter books, they are simply saying "we are taking a stand against something we see as a promotion of withcraft and sorcery"; and there is no way for them to force people not to read the books, nor were they even trying. When the Nazi burned books, it was an act of GOVERNMENTAL CENSORSHIP. They were saying "It is ILLEGAL to read these books".

The comparison between these people and the Nazis is ludicrous, even if you are just referring to the book-burning part. They both burned books - the comparison ends there; the motivation and situation is not the same at all. If you want to make a comparison based solely on the fact that they both did one thing in common, I could just as easily compare you to the Nazis because you both have eaten vegetables.

It's also legit and even wise to note that such legal yet fanatical actions are how things like the Holocaust begin. Now, do I think it's likely at all that such book burnings here will lead to a holocaust against non-Christians (or "bad" Christians). Not at all--happily, these book-burners are in the fringe minority, and to argue that one WILL lead to the another is the slippery slope fallacy. But noting potential early warning signs of a potential violent conflict is valid IMHO.

Anyway, my thoughts.

Things like the Holocaust begin when people start thinking that no one besides their race, or their "type" of people, is worth having around. The Holocaust didn't come about because the Nazis burned a few books. The holocaust came around because Hitler and his kind envisioned a master race and hated anyone who didn't fit into that mold.