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Old 07-16-2005, 11:05 PM   #31
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Originally posted by AvsGirl41

Why should we tolerate those who cannot respect a piece of fiction?
Why? because it is simply a matter of opinion. You don't want to tolerate somone because they "don't respect a piece of fiction"? Come on now.

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I don't think we REALLY need to remind ourselves who else was burning books in the 20th century, now do we??
Yes, please remind me. I think I have an idea what you are going to say, and if it is indeed what I think, the comparison is ludicrous, and I'll be able to back up my assertion.

Are these Harry Potter book-burners mentally deranged? Are they comparable to The Taliban?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:07 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

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Tolkein was a Christian, and his books were largely allegorically Christian in nature.
Tolkein also declared his books were not to be read as allegory. It's why he wasn't a fan of the Narnia books.

There are religious elements--there almost always is in a story about good versus evil--but to read LOTR as a straight-up Christian allegory is doing a huge disservice to the beauty and imagination of Tolkein's world.

But hey, to each their own. If it stops people from burning Middle Earth, let them read into it what they will. I just wish they'd crack open Harry Potter too, I think they'd be surprised.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:07 PM   #33
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Maybe they should take the money they spent on the books they were about to burn and donate it to charity, to "these least brothers of mine" instead of this absolute nonsense.

What a joke.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:08 PM   #34
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Thank you anitram
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:09 PM   #35
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Well, I guess that begs the question: Why are they so scared as to be burning these books?
Who said they were scared? Could they be doing it simply to stand up for their beliefs and try to make a point?

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I am sure there are alot of things that you don't agree with...are you going to stand in the street and cause a commotion as you publicly burn them? I am sure that you are comfortable enough in your own faith to not act out as that way.

I'm not sure I would burn the books, but I respect their right to do so, as long they are books they paid for themselves. It's a form of protest.

Would you like to try answering my question now? Are these people mentally deranged? Are they comparable to the Taliban?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:12 PM   #36
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These people are derange to think that this makes a flying fuck of difference, yes. The book sales are going to be that much better becaue they spent thier hard earned dollar to buy a book that they set to flame. That accomplishes nothing.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:12 PM   #37
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Re: Re: Re: Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

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Originally posted by AvsGirl41

There are religious elements--there almost always is in a story about good versus evil--but to read LOTR as a straight-up Christian allegory is doing a huge disservice to the beauty and imagination of Tolkein's world.
Why would that be a "huge disservice to the beauty and imagination of Tolkein's world"? Are you saying that books that are Christian allegories are by nature any less beautiful and imaginative than those that aren't? Is "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" any less beautiful and imaginative than what you say is not Christian allegory, The Lord Of The Rings?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:15 PM   #38
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These people are derange to think that this makes a flying fuck of difference, yes. The book sales are going to be that much better becaue they spent thier hard earned dollar to buy a book that they set to flame. That accomplishes nothing.
I'm glad you finally answered my question.

Now I suggest you go read about mental derangement and discover what it really is.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:16 PM   #39
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Oh, and about the Taliban. They seem to think they can force their beliefs on others by force. Christ doesn't come to anyone unless He calls them...He doesn't need to force Himself on anyone.

Don't tell me what I need to do.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:18 PM   #40
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Oh, and about the Taliban. They seem to think they can force their beliefs on others by force. Christ doesn't come to anyone unless He calls them...He doesn't need to force Himself on anyone.
So, by burning books, these people are trying to force Christ on people?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:19 PM   #41
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You're ridicuous...it really doesn't matter what I say to you because your heart is set....that is that...so why bother debating.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:19 PM   #42
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Why? because it is simply a matter of opinion. You don't want to tolerate somone because they "don't respect a piece of fiction"? Come on now.

Yes, please remind me. I think I have an idea what you are going to say, and if it is indeed what I think, the comparison is ludicrous, and I'll be able to back up my assertion.

Are these Harry Potter book-burners mentally deranged? Are they comparable to The Taliban?
Good, back it up. Please do, I'd love to see how justified it is.

I do think they are mentally ill, yes. They have not read the books, that much is clear. They are basing an opinion on what they THINK is in them. That's not rational. Nor is it an opinion. I think the book burners hold their view as an opinion, I believe they are taking this step because they think it's fact. And it's not fact.


An opinion is what you find in a book review. "No, I don't like this book and here is why." It isn't "This book is evil, leads children to embrace witchcraft and sorcery, and therefore must be destroyed in a fire." That's a declaration. Big difference.

The fact (which seems to be ignored more and more in this really silly debate) remains that what these people *think* is witchcraft (and I emphasize the think, because they're dead wrong there too)--sacrifices, pentagrams, black candles, who knows--isn't even in Harry Potter. Harry Potter waves a wand and chants phony spells to make things light up or float. He eats magic candy. He uses magic to fight an evil character named Lord Voldemort. There is nothing about "Hey kids, let's all worship Satan now because that's cool." It's pretty clear that evil exists in Harry Potter's world, and that the good characters like Harry must try to destroy it. I don't know how much moral a story *can* be. No, there's no God in it--but does there have to be? Can't kids go to the source for God instead?

And don't you think fiction should be respected? Literature is art. I can't believe you would dismiss my remark in such an offhand way. It may be Harry Potter and easy to dismiss, but frankly, put your favorite piece of art in its place and see how you feel then.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:21 PM   #43
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You're ridicuous...it really doesn't matter what I say to you because your heart is set....that is that...so why bother debating.
I'm ridiculous? You call these people mentally deranged for burning some books and then accuse them of trying to force Christ on people with no evidence whatsoever to support it, and you call ME ridiculous?
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:22 PM   #44
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I NEVER said they were trying to force Christ on anyone....don't abuse what I said. And if they are, shame one them.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:26 PM   #45
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Why would that be a "huge disservice to the beauty and imagination of Tolkein's world"? Are you saying that books that are Christian allegories are by nature any less beautiful and imaginative than those that aren't? Is "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" any less beautiful and imaginative than what you say is not Christian allegory, The Lord Of The Rings?
No. In fact, I'm quite fond of Christian allegory from the medieval era.

But it would be a disservice to read it so simplistically--and sorry, allegory is simplistic by its very nature, it's a limited literary form.

Tolkein's work is massive. Middle Earth came with languages, mythologies and history. The Lord of the Rings is only a slim chapter of it. Pick up The Simarillon sometime, if you haven't already. That can't be read as allegory, nor can his short stories. His Catholicism was always an element, but the stories stand alone from his religion and are, literary speaking, stronger for it.

I love C.S. Lewis too, but because he relied so much on allegory, the stories are more heavy-handed. I should find what Tolkein said about them, because it's better put than I could say it.

But that's my opinion, and isn't what this is all about?
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