Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books - Page 26 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-21-2005, 03:28 AM   #376
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well I'm glad you did because those show absolutely sucked.
Hey; Buffy was and is one of the best shows on TV, good writers, themes of honour, sacrifice and morality, elements of existentialism dropped in there.

The buffyverse of demons and magic was just backdrop for the very human aspects of the shows. It's drama for goodness sake, and it has some damn fine ones at that.

And if you were being sarcastic; I stand by what I said.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:13 PM   #377
New Yorker
 
sallycinnamon78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,977
Local Time: 02:34 AM
Many historical myths, legends, and fables involve magic or sorcery of some description. We have traditional stories based on truth but which has had bits added; traditional stories of gods or heroes which tries to explain why people or things are like they are; and
tales written to convey a message (didactic or otherwise) to the reader. These come into childrens historical education, and form part of the backbone of our modern society. Are we supposed to wipe these out, on account of them being related to some form of sorcery, and if so, how?

With all due respect to those who don't wish their children to read certain books; if your son/daughter really wants to read them, (s)he will find a way to do so. I'm assuming (s)he has classmates, friends and access to a local library, school library, or bookstore?

Just a point.

Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen I'd prefer to look at it like this: If you let your daughter read Harry Potter, you expose her to a world of imagination - to a world that isn't real but that teaches good lessons about friendship and good vs. evil. The sorcery and witchcraft is incidental.

It'd be a shame to not allow your daughter to read a well crafted book (of fiction) that could teach good lessons and also spark her imagination simply because it's got magic in it.

How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.

Couldn't agree more - that's quite possibly the most sensible post here so far, IMO.
__________________

__________________
sallycinnamon78 is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:18 PM   #378
New Yorker
 
sallycinnamon78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,977
Local Time: 02:34 AM
Yep. Easter, supposedly, comes from 'Eostre'. It's a possibility.... I did some research on this, it's quite interesting.

Possible pagan influences on Easter:

In his 'De Temporum Ratione' the Venerable Bede wrote that the month Eostremonat was so named because of a goddess, Eostre, who had formerly been worshipped in that month. In recent years some scholars (Ronald Hutton, P.D. Chantepie de la Saussaye, Elizabeth Freeman) have suggested that a lack of supporting documentation for this goddess might indicate that Bede assumed her existence based on the name of the month. Others note that Bede's status as "the Father of English History", having been the author of the first substantial history of England ever written, might make the lack of additional mention for a goddess whose worship had already died out by Bede's time unsurprising. The debate receives considerable attention because the name 'Easter' is derived from Eostremonat, and thus, according to Bede, from the pagan goddess Eostre.

Jakob Grimm took up the question of Eostre in his Deutsche Mythologie of 1835, noting that Ostaramanoth was etymologically related to Eostremonat and writing of various landmarks and customs related to the goddess Ostara in Germany. Again, because of a lack of written documentation, critics suggest that Grimm took Bede's mention of a goddess Eostre at face value and constructed the goddess Ostara around existing Germanic customs which may have arisen independantly. Others point to Grimm's stated intent to gather and record oral traditions which might otherwise be lost as explanation for the lack of further documentation. Amongst other traditions, Grimm connected the 'Ostern Hare' (Easter Bunny) and Easter Eggs to the goddess Ostara/Eostre. He also cites various place names in Germany as being evidence of Ostara, but critics contend that the close etymological relationship between Ostara and the words for 'east' and 'dawn' could mean that these place names referred to either of those two things rather than a goddess.

Bede's Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Ecclesiastic History of the English People") contains a letter from Pope Gregory I to Saint Mellitus, who was then on his way to England to conduct missionary work among the heathen Anglo-Saxons. The Pope suggests that converting heathens is easier if they are allowed to retain the outward forms of their traditional pagan practices and traditions, while recasting those traditions spiritually towards the one true God instead of to their pagan gods (whom the Pope refers to as "devils"), "to the end that, whilst some gratifications are outwardly permitted them, they may the more easily consent to the inward consolations of the grace of God". The Pope sanctions such conversion tactics as biblically acceptable, pointing out that God did much the same thing with the ancient Israelites and their pagan sacrifices. This practice might explain the incorporation of Eostre traditions into the Christian holiday.

However, the giving of eggs at spring festivals was not restricted to Germanic peoples and could be found among the Persians, Romans, Jews and the Armenians. They were a widespread symbol of rebirth and resurrection and thus might have been adopted from any number of sources.
__________________
sallycinnamon78 is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:24 PM   #379
New Yorker
 
sallycinnamon78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,977
Local Time: 02:34 AM
I mistakenly didn't quote the comment I was answering in the post above - it was a response to someone's point about Easter festival having pagan origins...

Just to add: I found this article which I think follows on quite well. It's from http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm

Quote:
Pagan origins of Easter:

Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3

Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternate explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.

Wiccans and other modern-day Neopagans continue to celebrate the Spring Equinox as one of their 8 yearly Sabbats (holy days of celebration). Near the Mediterranean, this is a time of sprouting of the summer's crop; farther north, it is the time for seeding. Their rituals at the Spring Equinox are related primarily to the fertility of the crops and to the balance of the day and night times. Where Wiccans can safely celebrate the Sabbat out of doors without threat of religious persecution, they often incorporate a bonfire into their rituals, jumping over the dying embers is believed to assure fertility of people and crops.
__________________
sallycinnamon78 is offline  
Old 07-31-2005, 09:55 PM   #380
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 08:34 PM
I am cracking up tonight....

I have been away from church for about a month because of vacations and surgery.....

Who calls tonight but my Priest. Why is she calling me? To talk about the Harry Potter Book....she wanted to know if I finished it. I have, and she wanted to add me to the parish email curculating about the book.

Made me think of this thread.

LOL
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-01-2005, 05:30 PM   #381
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Who calls tonight but my Priest. Why is she calling me? To talk about the Harry Potter Book....she wanted to know if I finished it. I have, and she wanted to add me to the parish email curculating about the book.
For a moment there I thought you were going to say, "She wanted to know if there was a connection between my absence from church and Harry Potter..."

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Tolkein was a Christian, and his books were largely allegorically Christian in nature.
80s, have you ever seen the site www.the-patronus.com? It is a Christian Harry Potter site by the same people who do the Christian LOR site, www.angelsandelves.com. (It has not been updated to cover the new book yet, unfortunately.)
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 08-01-2005, 09:39 PM   #382
New Yorker
 
AvsGirl41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,948
Local Time: 06:34 PM
I just started reading The Silmarillion straight through for the first time. The forwards were really very illuminating about Tolkein's conception of LOTR and the Christian allegory.

In a letter to his publisher, Tolkien talked about the King Arthur myths and why he felt they weren't the right mythology for Britain. "For another and more important thing: it is involved in, and explicitly contains the Christian religion. For reasons which I will not elaborate, that seems to me fatal. Myth and fairy-story must, as all art, reflect and contain in solution elements of moral and religious truth (or error) but not explicit, not in the known form of the primary "real" world."

Now, later in his life, Tolkien's work took a more religious turn as his son found out when he tried to edit it together. "In his later writing mythology and poetry sank down behind his theological and philosophical preoccupations: from which arose incompatibilities of tone."

People can read books however they want to, and if these two websites allow more Christians to accept fantasy literature, so much the better. I only hope they're read more as extended literary criticism than religious truth--but there's no harm in either, I suppose. But I can't help but wince when angelsandelves.com describes Arwen as symbolic of the church and the sacrifice of Jesus. Tolkein is so much more than that. It seems a shame to dissect his work that way rather than to admire his own originality and stories of good and evil, and love and fellowship.

But that's my own private two cents.
__________________
AvsGirl41 is offline  
Old 08-02-2005, 12:15 PM   #383
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 09:34 PM
This pastor is so going to hell

http://www.stpaulsnorwalk.org/sermon...n20030824.html
__________________

__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com