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Old 07-20-2005, 08:57 PM   #361
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BVS,

Actually I think the witchcraft paul spoke of is very much a similar witchcraft that the pagans practice today.

It's a very old practice.

But, I give you the whole broom/quidditch thing, etc... obviously is potter specific.
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:57 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris


True. And I FULLY support you here. But, I am bringing about the point of the original post - care to take a crack at the difference between JKR and JRR?
No, I don't care to take a stab at it, because that would be the equivalent of me trying to talking about rocket science. If you'd like to tell me, that's fine.

In fact, I'll even back off the assumption that Harry Potter promotes sorcery and witchcraft. I am not easy about the protagonists using it at all, and I wouldn't feel comfortable reading it or letting my kids read it.

To call my faith "weak" for that is absurd. I know you didn't say that, but someone did.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:03 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
80's I just read Galations 5 and also did a little internet research.

I found some interesting things.



One interpretation I found which I thought was interesting:


But another thing one has to consider is terminology. Witchcraft at the time was probably something applied to something they couldn't explain by their very limited knowledge of science.
Terminology is very important, which is why I have a lexicon, a greek dictionary for use with the Bible.

The terms witchcraft and sorcery in that verse refer specifically to "the using of any kinds of drugs, potions, or spells".
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:06 PM   #364
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Right - understood. No, not weak, not strong, but definitely not fair to a neat piece of fiction, that is equal in fantasy to other make-believe works that you are ok with.

That's the dilemma.

80's, it is a bit of a joke, flying cars, three headed dogs, owls that deliver the mail. If she never called them witches and called them bogeys, and if they didn't ride brooms but they rode floating hovercraft, and this all took place in the distant future, I'm afraid it would be ok with these book burners.

And that I just don't get.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:08 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Terminology is very important, which is why I have a lexicon, a greek dictionary for use with the Bible.

The terms witchcraft and sorcery in that verse refer specifically to "the using of any kinds of drugs, potions, or spells".
Ok so what are spells? Because the "use of drugs, potions, or spells" can actually refer to any pharmasists that also prays if defintion allows.

Drugs and "potions" are used by modern medicine everyday.

Is Scientology right after all?
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:09 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris

80's, it is a bit of a joke, flying cars, three headed dogs, owls that deliver the mail. If she never called them witches and called them bogeys, and if they didn't ride brooms but they rode floating hovercraft, and this all took place in the distant future, I'm afraid it would be ok with these book burners.

And that I just don't get.
Wow we agree on something.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:10 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Right - understood. No, not weak, not strong
Right - the fact is that this has nothing to do with level of faith whatsoever.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:16 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Ok so what are spells? Because the "use of drugs, potions, or spells" can actually refer to any pharmasists that also prays if defintion allows.
Medicine is not a "potion", and prayers are not "spells".

Luke, the writer of the Book of Luke, was a physician, so I would say that means God is A-OK with doctors and their craft.

Also, the other meaning of sorcery and witchcraft refers specifically to the "magic arts", so I would say that also supports my argument that the meaning of the term sorcery in Galatians 5 does not refer to physicians.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:18 PM   #369
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Goodnight everyone. I still have about an hour of work I need to do before I go to bed, so I must leave.

It's been interesting to say the least. At least no one called me brainwashed tonight.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:27 PM   #370
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
You see, I believe that the Bible we have today is the accurate Bible
But (what I believe as a Roman Catholic is that) the Bible we have today is the direct result of many changes, made by men, not by God. The version of Luther differs a lot from the original version. Well I guess we would have to study theology in order to discuss this..

I do agree with you that sorcery and witchcraft exist. I am all for them as long as they are positive forces. To those familiar with witchcraft it ain´t necessarily a bad thing. For example, an Obeahman (Obeah - see Carribean) can use any system and fuel it with the power of Obeah without the danger of disrespect for the gods, but, depending on circumstances, not necessarily without repercussions from the gods and the natural order of things. Obeah is potent, compelling and in the wrong hands, both deadly and dangerous (credit to The Wanderling for that one).

The ones who seriously practise magic know all things must return to a balance. If you create any movement in the normal flow of events somehow somewhere there must be a return to the equalibrium. Simply put, if you act as the medium between the person wanting a spell given and the person receiving the spell, the person wanting the spell is responsible for the consequences. If, on the otherhand, you are the perpetrator of the spell for your own reasons on your own behalf, then you must accept and bear the consequences. Nothing is free, there is always a payoff somewhere.
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:37 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Medicine is not a "potion", and prayers are not "spells".

Luke, the writer of the Book of Luke, was a physician, so I would say that means God is A-OK with doctors and their craft.

Also, the other meaning of sorcery and witchcraft refers specifically to the "magic arts", so I would say that also supports my argument that the meaning of the term sorcery in Galatians 5 does not refer to physicians.
Well I know spells was a stretch but I wanted a true definition, because out of the preconcieved notion of witchcraft it loses any context. Therefore I'm trying to find some true defintion. Not the preconcieved lump of sums.

Now the potion part is very resonable because medication is just a mixture of ingredients, so I'm not sure what makes the differentiation, that's why I'm asking.

But even "magic arts" is vague. Magic can mean many things to many people...con-artist, illusionist, etc...

I guess what it comes down to is that I haven't been shown anything that leads to these people's fear of witchcraft, or at the very least their fear of this book.

We're equating vague terms of "witchcraft" which no one's shown me what it truly means to the modern fantasy version of it. To me it's like equating Goliath to the "giants" of fairy tales. The real "Goliath" probably was a large man, but the fairy tale giants stand several stories tall.
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Old 07-20-2005, 10:02 PM   #372
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

It is more a matter of what you are willing to expose to your child and the example one sets for their children.


yes, exactly.


in this case, what i think im going to do is either

a: watch the movie by myself, or read book by myself. if i dont like it...no harm done to daisy. i've exercised my right as her mother to not let her read the harry potter books.

b: rent the harry potter movies/read the book and watch/read it with my daughter. if she shows an interest, we discuss it.

if she likes the movie, and i dont ...then there's a problem. i would have to deal with that if/when the time comes.

when she is old enough to make her own decisions, which i hope are good ones, she then, can make her own choices as to which book she reads, what movies she watches.

daisy is 9 years old. still at a very impressionable age.

i am exercising my right as a mother, to not let her read certain books, or watch certain movies.

call me ignorant, blind, whatever...but the fear of the unknown...i'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 07-20-2005, 10:12 PM   #373
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Originally posted by icelle
i am exercising my right as a mother, to not let her read certain books, or watch certain movies.
thats what i would do too

but not with a harry potter book, rather with a flic that advocates violence

thats a personal decision of every parent, and i wouldn´t be afraid of my kids asking me about witchcraft (especially based on a harry potter book, not based on some heavier stuff). i´d rather be worried if they watched sylvester stallone´s rocky and thought its cool.
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Old 07-20-2005, 11:30 PM   #374
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Personally, I say that as long as you're teaching your child to be a good, upstanding citizen who shows respect for their fellow man, then you shouldn't have to worry at all about what some show or book or song talks about. Your kid will know that just because some show uses violence, it doesn't mean they have to do the same. But that's just me.

And while we're on the subject of the media, am I alone in thinking that music/books/movies/TV are actually not promoting/endorsing/supporting certain actions or thoughts, but instead are simply reflecting what a lot of people in society do or say? Because if the media were truly promoting violence or adultery or other various things of that nature, then how did people get the ideas to commit any of that stuff back in the days when TV and radio and that didn't exist, and when it took ages sometimes for the written word to travel in various forms to people (also keep in mind that there were people back then who couldn't read for various reasons)? All that stuff happened back then, too, with little to no media influence involved. So how does that work?

Angela
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Old 07-21-2005, 01:14 AM   #375
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I honestly don't understand this. 80s, you're ok with Lord of The Rings? You've read the books/seen the movies?

But you're NOT ok with protagonists using "sorcery" in a book you haven't even read??
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