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Old 07-20-2005, 02:37 PM   #316
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


nice one

But you still haven´t replied to the point in question: the difference between protesting against sth political (burning a flag as a symbol of a nation) in compare to sth religious (burning a book being a piece of art/ litterature). You don´t see any difference?
No. No difference.

To say there is a difference is a subjective evaluation of the speech (a prior restraint, if you will).

Book burning goes back well into time (long before the Nazis). It is usually associated with the eradication of a culture or line of thought.

Today, in this case, the burning of a few books by an advocacy group is a clear expression of ideas.
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:53 PM   #317
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Originally posted by Diemen


I'd prefer to look at it like this: If you let your daughter read Harry Potter, you expose her to a world of imagination - to a world that isn't real but that teaches good lessons about friendship and good vs. evil. The sorcery and witchcraft is incidental.

It'd be a shame to not allow your daughter to read a well crafted book (of fiction) that could teach good lessons and also spark her imagination simply because it's got magic in it.
I agree with this 100%.

I am heading in to surgery tomorrw and I will be bedridden for the next 7-10 days. I just returned home from Borders with the book. I have read the entire series, and the stories have MUCH more to do with the struggles between good and evil, right and wrong, and prejudices....than with promoting witchcraft.
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Old 07-20-2005, 04:18 PM   #318
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Originally posted by Diemen
How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.
Sometime's good sense doesn't do to well in here.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:29 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.
That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves? What's wrong with a parent making a decsion, based on her gut instincts, not to let her child read the book? The world is full of books for the child to read.

Part of being a parent is making decisions that are best for the child. I would say t's better to be safe to sorry. The child isn't going to be emotionally scarred if he/she doesn't get to read the book. When the child is old enough, she can make her own decision about whether to read it.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:30 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Sometime's good sense doesn't do to well in here.
But making hit and run one-liner insults has become an art form.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:34 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves? What's wrong with a parent making a decsion, based on her gut instincts, not to let her child read the book? The world is full of books for the child to read.

Part of being a parent is making decisions that are best for the child. I would say t's better to be safe to sorry. The child isn't going to be emotionally scarred if he/she doesn't get to read the book. When the child is old enough, she can make her own decision about whether to read it.
Here lies the biggest problem, no one reads it, prejudges it and then 1000s lead their lives and teach their children with highly uneducated and misinformed "gut" reactions. Now how are you going to judge all the other books? Are you going to listen to all those other "Christians" who didn't read it, but judged it by it's cover?

How can anyone be so weak in their own faith that they fear reading a child's book?
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:45 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves?
But 80's, how in the world can any adult make that determination IF THEY HAVEN'T READ IT?

That's what boggles my mind. Reminds me off the parents of a few students of mine who were SURE Twain was a raving KKK god because Huck Finn says nigger like 300 times (which he does). Now, as a teacher, I 100% respected a parent's right to say they didn't want their kid to read X book. After a few years I was learning that the kids need to choose what they read anyway, so the problem began to solve itself. What outraged me was the parent who wanted X book taken out of the curriculum or the library.

S/he has the right to determine what her student reads, not anyone else's.

Now, these parents are not doing that. I could actually see an arguement that this is either better (it doesn't prevent me from loving Harry ) or worse (it's aggression borders on but is not quite violent). LOL. So my verdict: protected free speech, as is my opinion that they're igornant.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:46 PM   #323
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Yeah, that phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover" really applies here.

Once again, just because a book expresses a certain idea, that does NOT mean you must agree with said idea. Let's say the Harry Potter books did promote what these religious groups are claiming they promote. Did the author, at any point and time, ever say that everyone who reads those books must follow whatever ideas are espoused in them? No. And if somebody did choose to go ahead and support things like sorcery and witchcraft, as long as they aren't hurting anybody, then why the hell should anyone else care what they believe?

Also, you know, I could state that the Bible promotes violence because of the various violent acts that occur in it, but I don't doubt some religious people would tell me that I'm wrong in believing that, and would probably suggest I actually read the Bible to show that I am mistaken in my claims. So why, then, are some of them so quick to claim that the Harry Potter books promote sorcery and witchcraft, and refuse to see if their assumptions are even remotely correct? I'd extend the courtesy to not assume things about the books they love to them, so it'd be kinda nice if they did the same here.

Angela
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:46 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


But making hit and run one-liner insults has become an art form.
Look, good sense is good sense no matter what religion, nationality, gender, etc.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:48 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Here lies the biggest problem, no one reads it, prejudges it and then 1000s lead their lives and teach their children with highly uneducated and misinformed "gut" reactions. Now how are you going to judge all the other books? Are you going to listen to all those other "Christians" who didn't read it, but judged it by it's cover?

How can anyone be so weak in their own faith that they fear reading a child's book?
It's not a question of being "weak in their faith". In fact, it might be just a quesion of obeying the Bible. The Bible says to stay away from sorcery and witchcraft. Just the fact that the protagonists use sorcery may be reason enough for parents to not let their kids read it. I'll tell you the truth, the fact that the protagonists use sorcery would probably be enough for me not to read it. I, and others, happen to believe that sorcery and witchcraft are works of the devil.

It's funny that you say that we should let people live their own lives without judging them, but you see no problem in judging parents who wouldn't let their kids read Harry Potter as having a "weak faith".
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:50 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Look, good sense is good sense no matter what religion, nationality, gender, etc.
I posted a suggestion to which, Deep made a suggestion and said that his suggestion made more sense, then you said that sometimes good sense doesn't do too well in here. Sure seems like you were saying that my idea wasn't "good sense", but deep's was.
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:59 PM   #327
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


It's not a question of being "weak in their faith". In fact, it might be just a quesion of obeying the Bible. The Bible says to stay away from sorcery and witchcraft. Just the fact that the protagonists use sorcery may be reason enough for parents to not let their kids read it. I'll tell you the truth, the fact that the protagonists use sorcery would probably be enough for me not to read it. I, and others, happen to believe that sorcery and witchcraft are works of the devil.

It's funny that you say that we should let people live their own lives without judging them, but you see no problem in judging parents who wouldn't let their kids read Harry Potter as having a "weak faith".
Because these parents have no basis of which to judge this, it's weak faith. This book doesn't teach you how to be a witch, it doesn't promote anything, IT'S FANTASY!!!! Fantasy = not real...

90% of children's stories have fairies, magic, witches what not, why can't people see this?

So are we just to read books where the protagonist is perfect?
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Old 07-20-2005, 06:00 PM   #328
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I posted a suggestion to which, Deep made a suggestion and said that his suggestion made more sense, then you said that sometimes good sense doesn't do too well in here. Sure seems like you were saying that my idea wasn't "good sense", but deep's was.
No I responded to Diemen and he made a response that was just common sense to parenting.
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Old 07-20-2005, 07:06 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Because these parents have no basis of which to judge this, it's weak faith. This book doesn't teach you how to be a witch, it doesn't promote anything, IT'S FANTASY!!!! Fantasy = not real...

90% of children's stories have fairies, magic, witches what not, why can't people see this?
I don't have weak faith, and I don't wish to read the books.

Weak faith doesn't enter into the picture at all. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with faith. It has to do with how they apply their moral values.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So are we just to read books where the protagonist is perfect?
No, of course not. From their view, they would say that this type of book is different, because the Bible expressly forbids having anything to do with sorcery or magic.
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Old 07-20-2005, 07:08 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No I responded to Diemen and he made a response that was just common sense to parenting.
Frankly, I'm used to people making hit and run insults against me, so that's why I took it the way I did. If you did not intend it as an insult, I apoligize for misunderstanding.
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