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Old 07-19-2005, 03:24 PM   #226
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Burning a flag is considered protected speech. I would say burning a Harry Potter book is also a form of protected speech.
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:30 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Burning a flag is considered protected speech.
by who? the US administration? then how come conservatives critisized the palestinians when they burned US flags? could it be they critisized protected speech?

surely, burning a flag is not considered to be "speech" by me- there is a difference in the act of burning and speaking (thats what my european logic says, but maybe the definition in english language is a different one?)

ps. see the ps above
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:12 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling


80's, thank you for taking the time to rephrase. I have to say, though, the above leaves me with the exact same concern. I am suspicious as soon as I read the phrase 'only one reasonable interpertation'. Why so? Where does Scripture itself say that? Who decides what's a metaphor/allegory and what's "self-explanatory"? One what authority do they do so? A whole host of problems here.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love it when I see people who get it.
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:21 PM   #229
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Originally posted by phanan
Wow. I'm amazed at what kind of discussion a fantasy book generates.
You're not alone on that.

I do apologise for mentioning our fictional friend/mortal enemy (delete as applicable) Harry again; especially in a thread that was initially centred on reactions to his various adventures.

Quote:
Originally posted by enajh2
Related story that I heard on the radio recently...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/4682519.stm

"A primary school cancelled a Harry Potter day over complaints it could lead children into "areas of evil".
Here's more zealous propaganda, going from bad to worse...

Quote:
It was with fear and a great sense of shame and guilt that I touched the cover of a Harry Potter book for the first time[...] For weeks I had prayed for guidance, and I hope it was God's will that I saw with my own eyes what is foisted upon the eyes and minds of our children.

I have heard many bad things about these books and movies, there would be countless instances of witchcraft, cursing, brewing of drugs made by boiling alive babies pulled from the earth, sexual congress with goats [...]but what I found was much worse still than I had feared.

Please do not let your children read these books or watch these movies!

I will now tell you why:
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter2.htm
The whole Potter-burning hysteria reminds me very much of the equally neurotic reaction to Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. This article is a couple of years old now, but I found it quite revealing. Not to mention amusing.

A little taster for you:

Quote:
I'm not going to tell you more about the book because, as I said, it is an engaging, interesting story, and I don't want you to read it. So don't be deceived by positive reviews. (I regret to say that I gave The Golden Compass a thumb's up.) Avoid this series altogether. It's a sophomoric anti-Christian diatribe, but dangerous precisely because it is packaged as a fun series of books for young adults. http://www.crowhill.net/journeyman/V...materials.html
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:21 PM   #230
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


by who? the US administration? then how come conservatives critisized the palestinians when they burned US flags? could it be they critisized protected speech?

there's a difference between criticising, and attempting to make an act illegal. as if we have the power to legislate for the Palestinians anyway...although we're not so far off from getting it banned here, are we?

it's anyone's right to burn a flag, and it's anyone's right to burn a harry potter book as long as they pay for it first, I'm only saying it shows the person for the delusional idiot that they are.
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:12 PM   #231
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In terms of extreme reaction to JK Rowling's books: this made me laugh...

The Harry Potter Hoax

Quote:
Regardless of what side of the Harry Potter debate you're on, it pays to check your sources. The writer of this hoax clearly did not do so...

Currently, an email is doing the rounds in which a Christian is trying to warn readers against the alleged evils of the Harry Potter Series. Within the email is the URL of a story on which this person based his or her research:

Still not convinced? I will leave you with something to let you make up your own mind. First the URL to read some background of what I have given you: http://theonion.com/onion3625/harry_potter.htmlOff-site Link ( Harry Potter Books Spark Rise In Satanism Among Children [sic]

If the author of that email would had ''researched'' just a bit more carefully, he or she may have observed that the current edition of The Onion, which bills itself as ''America's Finest News Source,'' includes the following news reports:

* New Orleans Adopts $10 Cover Charge
NEW ORLEANS--New Orleans announced plans Monday to impose a $10 cover charge on all nonresidents seeking to enter the city.
* Area Man's Recommended Daily Caloric Intake Exceeded By 9 A.M.
* Jury Finds Defendant Pretty
* Christian Right Lobbies To Overturn Second Law Of Thermodynamics
* An infographic on what the government is doing to combat the western wildfiresOff-site Link (One suggestion: Bomb Iraq).
That was fun. Someone with sense!

Then there's this little gem:

Quote:
Harry Potter:
Witchcraft Repackaged
Making Evil Look Innocent
Only $18.99 at AMF Christian Videos
Price

USD $18.99

Harry Potter hysteria has gripped America and Europe with Harry Potter books, Harry Potter movies, Harry Potter trading cards, Harry Potter games, Harry Potter posters, and much more. What is the driving force behind such a movement? Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged is a video exposing the darkness behind the Harry Potter frenzy. Find out for yourself if the Harry Potter craze is innocent or is actually evil made to look innocent.

Harry Potter isn't all fun and games. There is growing concern that the Harry Potter craze has a dark side - and rightly so. What is presented as fantasy in these stories is all too real in the world of paganism.

Viewers will discover that these stories are filled with occult symbols and contain many similarities with occult practices such as black magic, curses & spells, divination & sorcery, occult symbology, spirit possession, mother goddess worship, evolution & reincarnation, seasonal nature celebrations, and communing with the dead & spirit world.

Made to look innocent, the evil present in these products desensitizes children to the tools and language of the occult while opening the doorway of the mind to deception. These stories blur the lines between good and evil, teaching that the source for both is the same, contrary to the Word of God.

With actual footage of occult practices, witchcraft religious rites, and interviews with WICCA practitioners, best-selling authors Robert S. McGee and Caryl Matrisciana provide an in-depth examination of the messages, symbols, and teachings, found in the Harry Potter stories.

Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged
- Making Evil Look Innocent $18.99
Available On VHS Video Cassette Tapes
Video Run Time Approximately 60 Minutes
Usually Ships Within 48 Hours
http://www.amfchristianvideos.com/Ha...Repackaged.htm
To sum it up:
Quote:
ALAMOGORDO, New Mexico (Reuters) - A New Mexico church plans to burn Harry Potter books because they are "an abomination to God," the church pastor said on Wednesday.

Pastor Jack Brock said he would have a "holy bonfire" on Sunday at the Christ Community Church in Alamogordo in southern New Mexico to torch books about the fictional teen-age wizard who is wildly popular with young people.

"These books encourage our youth to learn more about witches, warlocks, and sorcerers, and those things are an abomination to God and to me," Brock, 74, told Reuters.

"Harry Potter books are going to destroy the lives of many young people."

The books, written by British author J.K. Rowling, have been runaway bestsellers and a movie, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone," is currently a blockbuster hit.

Brock, whose said his Christmas Eve sermon was titled "The Baby Jesus or Harry Potter?," described the book burning as part of an effort to encourage Christians to remove everything from their homes that prevents them from communicating with God.
http://www.gainesvillehumanists.org/potter.htm
Where on earth is the logic, sanity, common sense and separation of fact and fiction in the last 2 articles quoted above??
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:15 PM   #232
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Indeed, what these people rather amusingly forget is that Satan is an invention of the Christian religion.

So actually if you trace it back, they are attacking the mythology of their own religion.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:39 PM   #233
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Originally posted by financeguy
Indeed, what these people rather amusingly forget is that Satan is an invention of the Christian religion.

So actually if you trace it back, they are attacking the mythology of their own religion.
That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially since Christians don't believe he is an "invention of the Christian religion".

And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:56 PM   #234
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


That doesn't make a lot of sense, especially since Christians don't believe he is an "invention of the Christian religion".

And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.


how myopic.

no other religion has a character named Satan. thus, he was invented by the Christian religion.

that whole fact vs. truth thing again.

which isn't to say he isn't real. i personally could care less. i don't give a shit about Satan, and really don't think he exists, so he holds no power over me. yet ... he seems to be in your thoughts, you're constantly on the lookout, so perhaps he's controling your life more than you'd like?
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:03 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally posted by sallycinnamon78


You're not alone on that.

I do apologise for mentioning our fictional friend/mortal enemy (delete as applicable) Harry again; especially in a thread that was initially centred on reactions to his various adventures.



Here's more zealous propaganda, going from bad to worse...



Wow. I'd swear an uber-English major wrote that. I'll bet anything she was once quite the literary critic as an undergrad...except for the small fact that it is CrAzY!

I like how the evil character became Jesus and Ginny the Virgin Mary, and Potter is the devil.

I guess my soul is ok, since Lucius Malfoy is one of my favorite characters (I have a serious thing for him in the films, Jason Isaacs ) and sometimes, I secretly root for him. All this time, he's actually the angel Gabriel!

Thanks for posting that.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:11 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


And Christians hate the devil; he is our enemy.
Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Quote:
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)...Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:38-44)
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:13 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




how myopic.

no other religion has a character named Satan. thus, he was invented by the Christian religion.
He's not an invention of the Christian religion if he really does exist.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



which isn't to say he isn't real. i personally could care less. i don't give a shit about Satan, and really don't think he exists, so he holds no power over me. yet ... he seems to be in your thoughts, you're constantly on the lookout, so perhaps he's controling your life more than you'd like?
He doesn't control my life, Irvine, and it's precisely because I DO keep a look out for him. I know his tricks; I know what my weaknesses are, and i know his seductions and the way he tries to take advantage of my weaknesses. I am bought with the blood of Jesus, and in his strength and power alone do I trust. He is able to deliver me from evil, and he does.

Maybe you don't give a s*** about the devil, but don't you realize that if he does exist, you're playing right into his hands? Don't you see that if he does exist, he doesn't want you to believe in him?

Next to believing that Christ is not the son of God, the greatest thing that Satan can get you to believing is that he himself is not real. If you don't believe in Satan, you will not see the need for a savior named Jesus Christ.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:17 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


He's not an invention of the Christian religion if he really does exist.

He doesn't control my life, Irvine, and it's precisely because I DO keep a look out for him. I know his tricks; I know what my weaknesses are, and i know his seductions and the way he tries to take advantage of my weaknesses. I am bought with the blood of Jesus, and in his strength and power alone do I trust. He is able to deliver me from evil, and he does.

Maybe you don't give a s*** about the devil, but don't you realize that if he does exist, you're playing right into his hands? Don't you see that if he does exist, he doesn't want you to believe in him?

Next to believing that Christ is not the son of God, the greatest thing that Satan can get you to believing is that he himself is not real. If you don't believe in Satan, you will not see the need for a savior named Jesus Christ.

you don't do abstractions well, do you?

in any event, thanks for the tips.

for now, while you're looking under the bed and behind the couches for Satan, i am going to get up each and every morning and try my best to be the best person i know how to be, to work as hard as i can, and to try and help the lives of the people around me, to work for change each and every day in real and measurable ways, and i'll let God -- or whoever, or whatever, or nothing -- sort it all out when it's all over.
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:17 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41

Thanks for posting that.
Well, I thought we could do with a bit of a laugh, instead of a ton of pointless paranoia.

Just scouring the murky depths of the net to see if I can locate any other amusing articles:

nothing yet... but this is a site I really like. It's full of well structured and articulate essays:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/hp_essays/
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Old 07-19-2005, 07:20 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Is he our enemy? More than our enemy? Then is there contradiction? It can be so confusing...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39)...

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:38-44)

No contradiction there at all. Satan is the ultimate enemy. When Christ says to not strike back in revenge, he is definitely talking about in our human relationships; he is not talking about Satan. We can't take revenge against Satan - only Christ can defeat Satan and he has already done that.

And our battle is indeed with Satan, our enemy. On more than one occasion, Christ let us know that Satan is the enmy, and Paul told us that our battle was not with flesh (other humans), but with the dark forces of Satan.
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