Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

[verte76]

For the record, the word "pagan" originally meant someone who lived out in the country. When the Romans became Christians Christianity was sort of a "city thing"; it didn't reach as many people in the country, thus they were more inclined to stick to the old ways. Another useless piece of information courtesy of the local history nut.

 

[nbcrusader]

What a pity that nbcrusader hasn´t replied to my initial argument as to the differences between political and religious freedom of protest.. obviously he thinks I got the right point of view, but can´t admit it..

Take silence as vicotry? Who will give you the award?

No, you are wrong.

This was not an attempt to eliminate all vestiges of the Harry Potter book. It was a protest, and form of speech.

To these people, they are protesting something more important than would be represented by burning a flag.

I hope you didn't over do it at your celebration party.

 

[verte76]

I love that God and Nietzsche quote, thanks sallycinnamon.

 

[Sherry Darling]

A few of my favorites, to inject a bit more humor into the tread

"Lord, grant me constancy and chastity--but not yet" ~St. Augustine

And from CS Lewis
"If you look upon bacon and eggs with hunger in the morning, you have already comitted breakfast in your heart"

 

[hiphop]

I hope you didn't over do it at your celebration party.

nice one

But you still haven´t replied to the point in question: the difference between protesting against sth political (burning a flag as a symbol of a nation) in compare to sth religious (burning a book being a piece of art/ litterature). You don´t see any difference?

 

[Landslide]

from CS Lewis
"If you look upon bacon and eggs with hunger in the morning, you have already comitted breakfast in your heart"

I love that.

... Just came in here to see what this thread was all about.

... religious arguing... ewwww.

well, in the spirit of this thread, here's my two cents with a couple of quotes of my own:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kent... uh, I mean, Keyser Soze.

"Preach the Gospel at all times... When necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi

 

[schnazdoodle]

Cripes, they're at it again.

Can someone explain to me why they don't arrange burnings of the Tolkien Lord of the Rings series? I mean weren't their wizards in Lord of the Rings too?

If memory serves me correctly (and hopefully I'm not repeating anything - I've yet to read all posts) Tolkien was a Christian... Perhaps a Christian's wizards are more acceptable?!?! Perhaps it's better that in LOTR, the wizard isn't the main character? I can't figure it out - these people are, IMO, crazy...

Harry Potter and LOTR are great... (And I'm a Christian...)

Also, I may think why they're protesting is stupid (I'm a HUGE Potter fan), but I do recognize that it's their right to do so...

 

[cell]

i am a christian, and i struggle with life's choices every day.

one of them...

to let my daughter read harry potter, or not.

my daughter did see the LOTR movies at her father's house. even tho i am a huge fan of the movies, it was not something i was too happy with when i learned daisy saw those movies. but because she loved the movies so much, i coudlnt really do anything about it except to maybe educate her with the morals of the stories.

i've not seen any of the harry potter movies. so i cant make a decision on that one.

so if i do let my daughter read harry potter...then i guess im exposign her to sorcery and witchcraft. and then some would argue that its a fight between good and evil.

if i dont..then im labeled a deranged lunatic.

confusing.

its getting harder and harder each day to stand up for our christian beliefs.

 

[schnazdoodle]

Very silly and sad...more sad than silly. I live in a province with a very high illiteracy rate. From what I've seen, Harry Potter seems pretty harmless...plus it gets kids reading, which is vital for their future. Who knows, they may even be inclined to pick up the bible to read one day.

Book-burning, it seems, would have the opposite effect, and instill a sense of fear....which we already have too much of....

Exactly.

Thaey are harmless -- they'd have no problem with them if they took out the FEW minor words there are (hell, damn), and eliminated the magical element. Then it would merely be a story of good v. evil.

With the magic, that's still all that they are. (I do not think that it advocates the occult...)

I don't get how they can't see that Harry is good - magic or not - and is fighting a darker side. (If Harry's bad, what's Voldemort?!?!) This leads me to believe that the majority of the people with protests regarding this book (or any "banned" book for that matter) have no even picked it up other than to throw it onto their censorship bonfire.

Yes, the Potter books are good (perhaps not great literature, but whatever), but from my experience (and my friend, who is a bookseller for a mega-book chain), these books pique interest in reading - which leads to an interest in other books...

Yes, that interest is sometimes limited to other books in the fantasy genre (His Dark Materials, The Seeing Stone (Arthur trilogy), Artemis Fowl, etc), but I think that eventually, they'll venture out from there...

In any case, it's still far better than children being glued to TV sets or their video game consoles...

 

[Diemen]

so if i do let my daughter read harry potter...then i guess im exposign her to sorcery and witchcraft. and then some would argue that its a fight between good and evil.

if i dont..then im labeled a deranged lunatic.

I'd prefer to look at it like this: If you let your daughter read Harry Potter, you expose her to a world of imagination - to a world that isn't real but that teaches good lessons about friendship and good vs. evil. The sorcery and witchcraft is incidental.

It'd be a shame to not allow your daughter to read a well crafted book (of fiction) that could teach good lessons and also spark her imagination simply because it's got magic in it.

 

[Diemen]

Re: Re: Silly Christofacsists on CNN burning Harry Potter books

If memory serves me correctly (and hopefully I'm not repeating anything - I've yet to read all posts) Tolkien was a Christian... Perhaps a Christian's wizards are more acceptable?!?!

JK Rowling is a Christian as well, so that doesn't quite fit.

 

[cell]

I'd prefer to look at it like this: If you let your daughter read Harry Potter, you expose her to a world of imagination - to a world that isn't real but that teaches good lessons about friendship and good vs. evil. The sorcery and witchcraft is incidental.

It'd be a shame to not allow your daughter to read a well crafted book (of fiction) that could teach good lessons and also spark her imagination simply because it's got magic in it.

thank you diemen, i'll take that into consideration...

 

[80sU2isBest]

i am a christian, and i struggle with life's choices every day.

one of them...

to let my daughter read harry potter, or not.

my daughter did see the LOTR movies at her father's house. even tho i am a huge fan of the movies, it was not something i was too happy with when i learned daisy saw those movies. but because she loved the movies so much, i coudlnt really do anything about it except to maybe educate her with the morals of the stories.

i've not seen any of the harry potter movies. so i cant make a decision on that one.

so if i do let my daughter read harry potter...then i guess im exposign her to sorcery and witchcraft. and then some would argue that its a fight between good and evil.

if i dont..then im labeled a deranged lunatic.

confusing.

its getting harder and harder each day to stand up for our christian beliefs.

The advice I would be give is to go with your gut. You seem like a good mother to me; you don't want your child to read anything that might harm them. I perssonally don't know much about the Harry Potter books, so I can't say whether they promote sorcery and withcraft. But if my kids wanted to read it, and there was any doubt in my mind at all, I'd play it safe. There are many other books they can read.

 

[Diemen]

How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I personally don't think any harm would come of a kid reading Harry Potter books, I don't really understand what the big concern is. My friend Rachel reads them constantly, and I've read a book. And last time I checked, both our beliefs in God are still fully intact, neither of us has gone to whatever horrid "dark sides" these religious groups fear people who read the books will go to or something like that. And the outcry is even more amusing when you consider that you cannot actually do any of the magic involved in these books. Also, verte's talk of the whole thing with "pagan" reminds me...from what I've heard about Christian history, I understand that some parts of the Christian faith were adopted from the pagan festivals and stuff like that. So if that's true, then it's a bit odd now that some Christians turn around and bash pagan-related things.

But regarding parents and these books, here's my take on it: If a parent personally chooses to not let their own kids read certain books or things along that line, I say, it's their kid, they can raise 'em however they want.

I just have issues when that same parent tries to start telling other kids who are not their own what they should/shouldn't be reading (or watching or listening to). I've got parents of my own, I'll let them decide that for me, thanks. Or, I can decide that sort of thing for myself, too. I'm certainly old enough to do that.

That's all.

Angela

 

[nbcrusader]

nice one

But you still haven´t replied to the point in question: the difference between protesting against sth political (burning a flag as a symbol of a nation) in compare to sth religious (burning a book being a piece of art/ litterature). You don´t see any difference?

No. No difference.

To say there is a difference is a subjective evaluation of the speech (a prior restraint, if you will).

Book burning goes back well into time (long before the Nazis). It is usually associated with the eradication of a culture or line of thought.

Today, in this case, the burning of a few books by an advocacy group is a clear expression of ideas.

 

[Dreadsox]

I'd prefer to look at it like this: If you let your daughter read Harry Potter, you expose her to a world of imagination - to a world that isn't real but that teaches good lessons about friendship and good vs. evil. The sorcery and witchcraft is incidental.

It'd be a shame to not allow your daughter to read a well crafted book (of fiction) that could teach good lessons and also spark her imagination simply because it's got magic in it.

I agree with this 100%.

I am heading in to surgery tomorrw and I will be bedridden for the next 7-10 days. I just returned home from Borders with the book. I have read the entire series, and the stories have MUCH more to do with the struggles between good and evil, right and wrong, and prejudices....than with promoting witchcraft.

 

[BVS]

How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.

Sometime's good sense doesn't do to well in here.

 

[80sU2isBest]

How about this: Read the book yourself and then determine if it would be suitable for your child, rather than making a determination based on your gut when you don't actually know the contents of the book. Seems to make a little more sense to me.

That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves? What's wrong with a parent making a decsion, based on her gut instincts, not to let her child read the book? The world is full of books for the child to read.

Part of being a parent is making decisions that are best for the child. I would say t's better to be safe to sorry. The child isn't going to be emotionally scarred if he/she doesn't get to read the book. When the child is old enough, she can make her own decision about whether to read it.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Sometime's good sense doesn't do to well in here.

But making hit and run one-liner insults has become an art form.

 

[BVS]

That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves? What's wrong with a parent making a decsion, based on her gut instincts, not to let her child read the book? The world is full of books for the child to read.

Part of being a parent is making decisions that are best for the child. I would say t's better to be safe to sorry. The child isn't going to be emotionally scarred if he/she doesn't get to read the book. When the child is old enough, she can make her own decision about whether to read it.

Here lies the biggest problem, no one reads it, prejudges it and then 1000s lead their lives and teach their children with highly uneducated and misinformed "gut" reactions. Now how are you going to judge all the other books? Are you going to listen to all those other "Christians" who didn't read it, but judged it by it's cover?

How can anyone be so weak in their own faith that they fear reading a child's book?

 

[Sherry Darling]

That's a good idea - from your viewpoint.

But many Christian adults wouldn't want to be subjected to books or movies if they think it might promote sorcery or witchcraft, so why would they even read the books themselves?

But 80's, how in the world can any adult make that determination IF THEY HAVEN'T READ IT?

That's what boggles my mind. Reminds me off the parents of a few students of mine who were SURE Twain was a raving KKK god because Huck Finn says ****** like 300 times (which he does). Now, as a teacher, I 100% respected a parent's right to say they didn't want their kid to read X book. After a few years I was learning that the kids need to choose what they read anyway, so the problem began to solve itself. What outraged me was the parent who wanted X book taken out of the curriculum or the library.

S/he has the right to determine what her student reads, not anyone else's.

Now, these parents are not doing that. I could actually see an arguement that this is either better (it doesn't prevent me from loving Harry ) or worse (it's aggression borders on but is not quite violent). LOL. So my verdict: protected free speech, as is my opinion that they're igornant.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Yeah, that phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover" really applies here.

Once again, just because a book expresses a certain idea, that does NOT mean you must agree with said idea. Let's say the Harry Potter books did promote what these religious groups are claiming they promote. Did the author, at any point and time, ever say that everyone who reads those books must follow whatever ideas are espoused in them? No. And if somebody did choose to go ahead and support things like sorcery and witchcraft, as long as they aren't hurting anybody, then why the hell should anyone else care what they believe?

Also, you know, I could state that the Bible promotes violence because of the various violent acts that occur in it, but I don't doubt some religious people would tell me that I'm wrong in believing that, and would probably suggest I actually read the Bible to show that I am mistaken in my claims. So why, then, are some of them so quick to claim that the Harry Potter books promote sorcery and witchcraft, and refuse to see if their assumptions are even remotely correct? I'd extend the courtesy to not assume things about the books they love to them, so it'd be kinda nice if they did the same here.

Angela

 

[BVS]

But making hit and run one-liner insults has become an art form.

Look, good sense is good sense no matter what religion, nationality, gender, etc.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Here lies the biggest problem, no one reads it, prejudges it and then 1000s lead their lives and teach their children with highly uneducated and misinformed "gut" reactions. Now how are you going to judge all the other books? Are you going to listen to all those other "Christians" who didn't read it, but judged it by it's cover?

How can anyone be so weak in their own faith that they fear reading a child's book?

It's not a question of being "weak in their faith". In fact, it might be just a quesion of obeying the Bible. The Bible says to stay away from sorcery and witchcraft. Just the fact that the protagonists use sorcery may be reason enough for parents to not let their kids read it. I'll tell you the truth, the fact that the protagonists use sorcery would probably be enough for me not to read it. I, and others, happen to believe that sorcery and witchcraft are works of the devil.

It's funny that you say that we should let people live their own lives without judging them, but you see no problem in judging parents who wouldn't let their kids read Harry Potter as having a "weak faith".

 

[80sU2isBest]

Look, good sense is good sense no matter what religion, nationality, gender, etc.

I posted a suggestion to which, Deep made a suggestion and said that his suggestion made more sense, then you said that sometimes good sense doesn't do too well in here. Sure seems like you were saying that my idea wasn't "good sense", but deep's was.

 

[BVS]

It's not a question of being "weak in their faith". In fact, it might be just a quesion of obeying the Bible. The Bible says to stay away from sorcery and witchcraft. Just the fact that the protagonists use sorcery may be reason enough for parents to not let their kids read it. I'll tell you the truth, the fact that the protagonists use sorcery would probably be enough for me not to read it. I, and others, happen to believe that sorcery and witchcraft are works of the devil.

It's funny that you say that we should let people live their own lives without judging them, but you see no problem in judging parents who wouldn't let their kids read Harry Potter as having a "weak faith".

Because these parents have no basis of which to judge this, it's weak faith. This book doesn't teach you how to be a witch, it doesn't promote anything, IT'S FANTASY!!!! Fantasy = not real...

90% of children's stories have fairies, magic, witches what not, why can't people see this?

So are we just to read books where the protagonist is perfect?

 

[BVS]

I posted a suggestion to which, Deep made a suggestion and said that his suggestion made more sense, then you said that sometimes good sense doesn't do too well in here. Sure seems like you were saying that my idea wasn't "good sense", but deep's was.

No I responded to Diemen and he made a response that was just common sense to parenting.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Because these parents have no basis of which to judge this, it's weak faith. This book doesn't teach you how to be a witch, it doesn't promote anything, IT'S FANTASY!!!! Fantasy = not real...

90% of children's stories have fairies, magic, witches what not, why can't people see this?

I don't have weak faith, and I don't wish to read the books.

Weak faith doesn't enter into the picture at all. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with faith. It has to do with how they apply their moral values.

So are we just to read books where the protagonist is perfect?

No, of course not. From their view, they would say that this type of book is different, because the Bible expressly forbids having anything to do with sorcery or magic.

 

[80sU2isBest]

No I responded to Diemen and he made a response that was just common sense to parenting.

Frankly, I'm used to people making hit and run insults against me, so that's why I took it the way I did. If you did not intend it as an insult, I apoligize for misunderstanding.