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Old 05-20-2005, 09:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


There were people who called Bush nazi and there were those that said that's a little too far, and yes some of those were liberals. So don't paint this forum with one brush.

We also had conservatives that called some of the Democratic nominees "nazi".

It goes both ways, it's a political term that's abused. Hell I've probably abused here once or twice. We all have in name or not.
I wasn't painting with one brush; I just remember a lot of people saying back when the ad came out that "it was a contest and moveon had no control over it." I don't have the time or desire to go back and read who wrote what way back when, so I was making a general statement with your quote.

I'm glad that most people here say that abusing the term nazi is wrong. There are real fascists out there, and when someone calles another person or group a nazi or nazis when there is no justification, it takes focus away from the real evils in the world. All I'm saying is that everyone should be sure to be consistent to when calling someone a nazi is right or wrong.
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Old 05-20-2005, 09:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


I wasn't painting with one brush; I just remember a lot of people saying back when the ad came out that "it was a contest and moveon had no control over it." I don't have the time or desire to go back and read who wrote what way back when, so I was making a general statement with your quote.

If I remember right most in here didn't approve of the submittal but agreed it shouldn't be removed due to freedom of speech, but most agreed it wasn't right.

If memory serves me right Moveon removed it due to pressure. I still don't they should, because I believe very strongly in no censorship but they had to due to political pressure.
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Old 05-20-2005, 10:33 PM   #33
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They beat up and killed anyone who disagreed with their politics, if you weren't a nazi, you were against the nazis and liable to suffer the consequences: conservative, traditionalist, liberalist, communist, completely apathetic, didn't matter - if you openly dissented their politics (or even dissented amongst the wrong people) your life was basically forfeit to either forced slave labour or one of the camps. Of course, your problems were two-fold if you were Jewish, handicapped (either physically or mentally), foreign (although they made concessions to the usefulness of the English and the Russians to some extent), non-Germanic slavic, or non-Prussian Polish; then it didn't matter what you thought cause you were below the level of human.

Of course, the beatings and murders and purges and pogroms were drops in the pail compared to the death camps. The truly sickening thing was the systematic liquidation of people. The fact that 6 million Jews died is sickening to most, but regardless of the fact that it was a single group of people; the fact that on a daily basis there were tens of thousands of people being gassed and burnt in Third Reich death camps alone should cause people to cringe.

Although few people shed tears for the Russians as far as I've been able to tell, even though their civilian casualties during the war were higher than all the other countries' combined military and civilian losses combined... but hey. It's just people's lives, nothing too major. Collateral damage is more acceptable than systematic murder, right? Ah, the wonders of war, and the excuses we make. That's a different topic altogether.


Some ideas that people like to cling onto from the nazi regime are the idea that someone's just propagandizing the people and ignoring the facts or making sweeping statements that are logically flawed but win over the crowd... Like the situation above, where nazi policy was basically 'if you're not with us, you're against us', and I've seen the argument been made 'if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists'. The thing to note here is that the link is the propaganda, and not the Nazism. If you associate it with Nazism then you're giving privilege to propaganda as if the Nazi propaganda machine outweighs the attrocities committed, as though you were saying Nazism is propaganda and nothing else. If you were to take this as truth and say 'he's using propaganda and therefore a nazi', you'd be spreading your own propaganda through the blatant falsehoods of your statement -- which, if you're saying propaganda is equal to nazism, makes you a nazi also by the same association. To call someone a nazi, then, is to call yourself a nazi - and that's just lunacy. Just because someone uses terrible syllogisms doesn't mean they're a nazi, it just means they don't understand (or choose to ignore) the fundemental processes of proper reasoning. People are entitled to make stupid statements, and others are entitled to believe them; you don't have to like that fact, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Like someone else already said: People can throw around Nazi and pretend to be educated and edgy as if they're making a point - to be a shock jock, as it were - but if they understood what they were saying, they wouldn't do it, because they'd realise how it makes them look like an idiot. Nazism isn't nazism without fascism/totalitarianism, racial hatred and aryan supremecy, dehumanization and merciless murder, etc, etc, etc. You can't take one of those peices and call it nazism without redefining nazism, and you just can't go around redefining words willy nilly because its convenient for you in one instance, that's not how language works.
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Old 05-21-2005, 03:52 AM   #34
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^^^^Yeah.
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Old 05-21-2005, 05:42 AM   #35
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Great post unforgettable. You're right on the money. People have no business throwing the word "Nazi" around to describe any but the real ones or people who do what they do. It might be OK to call someone like the Khmer Rouge this but I can't think of any other modern examples.
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:11 AM   #36
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I don't support anyone using that term or calling Bush or anyone else a Nazi, it has absolutely nothing to do w/ political affiliation
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I don't support anyone using that term or calling Bush or anyone else a Nazi, it has absolutely nothing to do w/ political affiliation
exactly.

while reading here on the vertigo tour board I came across the therm 'line-nazi' quite often.

I just can't believe people compare a fellow U2 fan ( even if it's a very irritading person and cutting in line or something like that..)
to a NAZI...

I think when you do that, you really have no clue what the therm 'nazi' stands for.
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