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Old 10-15-2001, 07:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by HelloAngel:
Unless I was watching a station from outer space on 9/11 and the weeks that followed <snip>
If I may respectfully add a bit of levity...

Probably most of what you were watching *did* come from outer space! Satellites!

i.e. "Babyface, babyface, you're coming to me from outer space"

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Old 10-15-2001, 08:45 PM   #17
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Evidently, if it was soldiers or civilians from the United States who were being killed, than we would have to think of it all day, CNN will say "America Under Attack : Our country's Martyrs" all over the world again. Of course, Afghan civilians are not as worth as a civilian of the United States. They are more cheaper. 6 000 innocent civilians of the United States died, yes. It is bad, I agree. But who cares for, let's say... one, two, three, ten, a hundred or two hundred or I-don't-know-what-is-true-on-TV number of Afghans who died in Afghanistan. After all, they're not profitable for us. "Well, that's war... that's the sad part of it" you will tell me. How sad from the mouth of the victors...

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Old 10-15-2001, 09:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Holy John:
Evidently, if it was soldiers or civilians from the United States who were being killed, than we would have to think of it all day, CNN will say "America Under Attack : Our country's Martyrs" all over the world again.
YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN!

We have a seperation of Church & State in the U.S. and we do not consider our fallen soldiers to be "martyrs." I think you are getting us confused with extremists who claim to do such things for religious reasons.

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Old 10-15-2001, 10:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
Where in the Koran is fighting against Jews and Christians called for? I ask out of sincere ignorance.
Before I post this, I want to reiterate that I am not against the Muslim people. I think that most of them are probably peace-seeking people. They are all loved by God, that is for sure. Here are some passages from the Koran:

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.
Sura 9:73

Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden and do not embrace the true faith until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued.
Sura 9:29

Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.
Sura 48:29


and yet, admittedly, in other places, it says:

Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors.

and

When the sacred months(*) are over them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
Sura 9:4


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 10-15-2001).]
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Old 10-16-2001, 12:19 AM   #20
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"Anchors--Away my Boy, Anchors--Away! To----our-last-night-at-shore, we sail at the brink of day-day-day-day! ........."

"Kabul, Kabul, Kabul is on fire! We-don't-need-no-water-let-the-mother......

(Freedom of Speech! It can be annoying sometimes,???) )

I GUESS I'M JUST A BRAINLESS WARMONGER!

GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 10-16-2001, 02:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by whammy:


"Anchors--Away my Boy, Anchors--Away! To----our-last-night-at-shore, we sail at the brink of day-day-day-day! ........."

"Kabul, Kabul, Kabul is on fire! We-don't-need-no-water-let-the-mother......

(Freedom of Speech! It can be annoying sometimes,???) )

I GUESS I'M JUST A BRAINLESS WARMONGER!

GOD BLESS AMERICA
Thanks for contributing something meaningful to the discussion.

Now in actuality you may not be a brainless warmonger - but with statements like that you sure come across as one. Do the rest of us who see the need for military action (but don't think just bombing the shit out of Kabul is fun) a favor and keep those kind of comments to yourself. Or at least post something showing some degree of intelligent thought.
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Old 10-16-2001, 08:15 AM   #22
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Originally posted by A|catura:
Hey wolfwill,

I think that your major problem is that you are probably watching that anti-US, pro-Taliban cable station CNN for your news. You need to watch Foxnews, where they tell ALL sides of the story.

CNN refuses to show how our brothers and sisters came to a horrific and violent death at the WTC, but the minute someone stubs their toe in Afghanistan we have to watch video of it over and over and over.

CNN is an insult to the victims of Sept. 11th.

http://www.fair.org/reports/fox.html

Id suggest to all the people who extoll the virtues of fox news that they read that article...coming from Australia i think ive got a pretty good idea of how calculated Murdoch is...thru fox news hes cleverly filled one of the remaining gaps in the US media, an ultra conservative news station...Im sure their slant is VERY orchestrated.

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Old 10-16-2001, 09:50 AM   #23
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[/b][/QUOTE]
http://www.fair.org/reports/fox.html

Id suggest to all the people who extoll the virtues of fox news that they read that article...coming from Australia i think ive got a pretty good idea of how calculated Murdoch is...thru fox news hes cleverly filled one of the remaining gaps in the US media, an ultra conservative news station...Im sure their slant is VERY orchestrated.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's funny. FAIR is an obvious left-wing organisation claiming to present the unbiased truth. What a crock of crap. How are we really to take seriously their calim of "fairness" when all their articles gripe and moan about conservatism?
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Old 10-16-2001, 10:52 AM   #24
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hehe, sorry to upset u 80s...i think my point was that no news is totally accurate or 'fair'...i dont think any news network should really be held up over others because they ALL tell a part of the story- its up to the discerning viewer to watch a reasonable blend and decide for themselves...ive found it disconcerting that fox news has been held up by some as being better and more informed than other networks, thats why i posted that link. All networks push one barrow- the search for ratings to sell their advertising.

and u didnt respond to the point i made about Murdoch...
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Old 10-16-2001, 11:22 AM   #25
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Fair enough, Brettig ( pun intended ). I assumed that, because you were using FAIR as a source to point out that FoxNews is a conservative-slanted new organisation, you were holding up FAIR to be non-biased. I guess that's not what you were saying. I'll go ahead and answer teh Murdoch issue. Yes, I think Fox news is conservatively-slanted. But that's A-OK with me, because I believe that conservatives are right on most of the issues.

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Old 10-16-2001, 12:02 PM   #26
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Gonzo: BRAVO. I have nothing else to add to your reply to wofwill23. You said it all.

80's: Yes you can find all those things in Kuran, but did you ever read The Bible? In Bible you can find things that would make us all the biggest siners ever - thing for which we (christians) should be executed - but you can't take things out of context. Kuran is realy peacefull book, and B.L. and people like him are taking all those sentances that you quoted and they build their "quest" upon them.
As a nuclear weapon is concerned - US should be carefeull with pakistan b/c they have nuclear weapon and if they change their government it could happen that those who will be that governmant will be the same who are leading protests against the US right now.

As for civilian casualities - you have to live by your own standards. Forgive me but I have to take another example from my country once again. Agressor on my country was Serbia, and we were defending ourselves for 5 yrs. When we took our last action in 1995 to regain the third of our land whic was occupied, 100 civilians died. Now our general have to go to war crime tribunal for "overusing the artilery"!!! OVERUSING THE ARTILERY?!? Usualy, I would say that there are always civilian casualities, but now I have to say that US generals and political leaders should go to war crime tribunal for civilian casualities in Afghanistan - sory but that's the standard that US and the rest of western world put up - if it stands for someone else than it should stand for you.

bye
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Old 10-16-2001, 12:08 PM   #27
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does it matter to you why they take that slant?
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Old 10-16-2001, 01:14 PM   #28
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brettig:

I believe you have already answered that yourself,

Quote:
wheny you said,
"thru fox news hes cleverly filled one of the remaining gaps in the US media"
Prior to the advent of FoxNews, there was not a mainstream television news network that "leaned" conservative. I have seen Melon portray CNN as "conservative, but I have never felt this of CNN, the product of Ted Turner, Murdoch's liberal alter-ego.

In fact, most of the mainstream televison media in the U.S. are viewed by most Americans as being liberal, and when FoxNews comes along and shakes that up, it throws groups like FAIR into a tizzy, almost seeking to ban or control the media.

And another thing: all of the mainstream news agencies are going to report basically the same "facts," based on information they get from governments (allied or opponent), eyewitnesses, and foreign or international news agencies which may or may not be owned by another government, but much of the conservative/liberal element deals only with HOW it is presented.

As a conservative, I prefer the method FoxNews delivers the evening news, but it always leads me to do my own further research.

~U2Alabama

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 10-16-2001).]
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Old 10-16-2001, 01:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marko:
80's: Yes you can find all those things in Kuran, but did you ever read The Bible? In Bible you can find things that would make us all the biggest siners ever - thing for which we (christians) should be executed - but you can't take things out of context. bye
Yes, Marko, I have indeed read the Bible. There are two big differences between what you speak of in the Bible and the way it is presented in the Koran.
1)All orders to kill are in the Old Testament. Christians are under a new covenant. While Christ does nhot ever specifically condemn war, he does not tell his people to go wage war against people who don't believe in Him. When the crusades happened, the people were acting on their own hateful thoughts, not on anything they read in the Bible.
2)When God told his people to kill in the Old Testament, they were all SITUATION SPECIFIC. And what do I mean by that? That God told specific people to take specific lands because of specific reasons. For example, he told the Israelites to take the land of Canaan at that time because he (1)the people in Canaan were wicked and worshipped idols and participated in unGodly actions. But there are no "blanket statements" of general war waging anywhere in the Bible, as those quotes from the Koran are.


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Old 10-16-2001, 01:49 PM   #30
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80's I know - what you're saying is right, but my point is that we can also go to war if we take a peace of bible out of it's context - crusaders did it a few times! And christianity respects old and the new testament the same - the only difference is that our main objective of faith is in the new one.
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