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Old 06-22-2005, 06:30 AM   #46
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling


One of the main problems (other than folks buying that if we cut taxes, they're better off in the long run, when we need those taxes to fund higher ed) is that most tuition decisions are made by a Board of Visitors (ya'll have those in Canada and the EU?). The are unelected, unaccountable, don't teach typically at the university or administor there, and have very little actually stake in the decisions that are made other than the college's almighty "bottom line." Universitys would be much better run if students and faculty for that matter had some mechanism of oversight or input.
My uncle is on the board of directors for my school. He went here, was an RA here, worked for the Development office for a long time, but now has no official affiliation w/ the school besides being on the board. He's been voting in favor of raising tuition each time it's come up, which is each year, and each year it passes so tuition goes up another 6%. Last year, my dad sent him a really nasty letter after our Christmas party b/c my uncle came in all gung-ho about the new huge tuition increase and what great things the school could build/purchase. See, my uncle is a stock broker who lives in a house so big he probably gets lost and has so many luxury cars that when he lets me borrow one, I get to choose between several. Whenever I'm out there babysitting or house sitting, I make a real effort to complain loudly about tuition and being poor and sometimes it'll work and he'll pay me like $50 for 2 hrs of babysitting.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:30 PM   #47
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I don't really know if I believe in the state paying for higher education, healthcare, etc, at least in theory...but it *is* ridiculous how much they cost these days. My family hasnt had health coverage for years, which is kinda scary. My dad's getting a new job that sucks, but at least it has some basic health coverage, that's good. But I mean, there's no way my parents could help me out in college (they cant even help themselves...they're terrible with money )...I'll probably end up going to UGA, if the Hope scholarship still exists when I graduate. I really wanna get out of Georgia, but the Hope scholarship is a pretty good deal and everything's so expensive out of state. It pays all tuition to state schools if you keep a 3.2 GPA throughout high school...I'm getting a job too. I really just want to make it through college without mountains of student debt. I'm only in high school, but already it's so stressful

I have to say though, I don't know if socialising healthcare would make things that much better though. From what I've seen within my own family, our little experiment with it (the VA) really sucks.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:43 PM   #48
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I dont have college and loans but I sure can complain about healthcare. I have Kaiser and every year they raise my premium by a substantial amount. I am now paying almost $200 a month for healthcare for myself.

I recently had to go to emergency because I dislocated my toe.. altogether with the co-pay and meds it was about $150. You'd think since I'm paying out my ass every month they could cut you some kind of break when you actually do get sick. Sure its a hell of a lot less than if I didnt have insurance at all, but still, that's $150 out of my pocket.
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

One of the main problems (other than folks buying that if we cut taxes, they're better off in the long run, when we need those taxes to fund higher ed) is that most tuition decisions are made by a Board of Visitors (ya'll have those in Canada and the EU?).
I'm not sure who exactly determines tuitions, but they are determined at the individual schools themselves.

The provincial government then has the right to cap tuitions for a certain amount of time, or legislate the % increase over a given period of time. They have done so in Ontario on occasion when tuition started rising too drastically.
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:33 AM   #50
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I am so shocked reading all these posts! I cannot believe in a first world country such as the USA that your medical system is third rate, and your education system is based on money over anything else.

I'm a 23 yr old student in australia. I've been at uni for four years and so far my uni bill is $16,000 (around $4000 a year) I'm doing a combined communications/pr with a major in the music industry.
I pay HECS which is a government based scheme. We don't pay anything while we are at uni, then when we graduate we don't have to start paying it back till we are earning over $25,000 a year. We also only have to pay 75% of it, if we pay up front (which i have done the first year)

I just think that education should be literally FREE, or worked out so you dont have to work a full time job throughout uni and see half your wage go to paying back student loans. I mean our HECS (which stands for Higher Education Commonwealth Scheme) is getting a little more expensive since the government raised it by 15-25% BUT, even a student doing medicine/law/business probably pays $10,000-$12,000 a year THE MOST.

And for your medical side, i broke my wrist (i was drunk how embaressing) went to the hospital, got xrayed, stayed overnight, got medication, a cast and i paided NOTHING. Because we have free healthcare for students (and welfare people) and then we have very subsidised costs for everyone else.

Like you can have an operation at a public hospital for nothing, there is just sometimes a waiting list.

I have private health cover because our family is covered by it, my mum pays $30 a month and i get free glasses/contacts, dentistry, medical visits, medication and free pill (weeeeeee) because of it!

I honestly don't get that you have to pay for medical insurance just incase you get sick?! It scares me. Is it as bad that say, you didnt have medical insurance and you broke your wrist you would have a bill to pay?!
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Old 06-23-2005, 07:01 AM   #51
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
I am so shocked reading all these posts! I cannot believe in a first world country such as the USA that your medical system is third rate, and your education system is based on money over anything else.


I honestly don't get that you have to pay for medical insurance just incase you get sick?! It scares me. Is it as bad that say, you didnt have medical insurance and you broke your wrist you would have a bill to pay?!
It is sad and shocking isnt it.America is suppose to be one of the richest countries in the world,and we cant take care our our sick,or senior citizens any better than we do.

Oh yes you have a bill to pay and if you cant pay,they can garnish your wages etc... to get it.

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Old 06-23-2005, 08:47 AM   #52
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Originally posted by VertigoGal
I don't really know if I believe in the state paying for higher education, healthcare, etc, at least in theory...but it *is* ridiculous how much they cost these days. My family hasnt had health coverage for years, which is kinda scary. My dad's getting a new job that sucks, but at least it has some basic health coverage, that's good. But I mean, there's no way my parents could help me out in college (they cant even help themselves...they're terrible with money )...I'll probably end up going to UGA, if the Hope scholarship still exists when I graduate. I really wanna get out of Georgia, but the Hope scholarship is a pretty good deal and everything's so expensive out of state. It pays all tuition to state schools if you keep a 3.2 GPA throughout high school...I'm getting a job too. I really just want to make it through college without mountains of student debt. I'm only in high school, but already it's so stressful

I have to say though, I don't know if socialising healthcare would make things that much better though. From what I've seen within my own family, our little experiment with it (the VA) really sucks.
I'm sorry to hear about these difficulties VertigoGal. A lot of folks are experiencing them. I hope that you all are able to find a way to make it work.

If I may--I'm confused by some apparent contradictions in your thinking, though. You don't want higher taxes--who does? And I don't support higher taxes on the working poor or middle class either. But you don't want the state to pay for it. So what's your solution?

It makes me crazy and breaks my heart to see so many people caugh in positions like we've all be describing here who vote for Republicans or conservatives (which you may or may not have done, this is a general remark not directed at you personally) thinking it will help their bottom line. The upper middle and wealthy classes should be taxed higher! That's how things like health care and education get funded, as all of these examples from our Canadian, European and Aussie friends show. Yet the rhetoric of economic conservatives is that if we protect the interests of the rich, wealth will somehow "trickle down." This has been tried and it failed! In a capitalist society, working families need some sort of protections from the market. That's one of the very reasons public institutions were established in the first place by guys like Jefferson--because health care and education in a civilized, progressive leading nation should not be the privlege of the wealthy.

National health care isn't "socialism". Socialism is state control of the economy (though a real Marxist would argue that with me, but that's another thread). It's simply a national plan to be sure that everyone has access to some kind of basic health care. I personally think that 50 state plans will likely work better than 1 national plan, but we'd need fed. funding for it, since some states are less able to afford it. But the administration I think should be done at a state level. Regarding the VA, I can imagine why you weren't impressed. They're desperately undefunded, and recently, a bill was passed to further cut funding (by Republicans). I can dig this up if you like--saw it maybe 4 months ago. Now, is the public sector always well run? No, no more so than the private sector--but no one argues that we should get rid of that or scale it down because of its efficency.

I guess this ranting LOL is about one question: you like a lot of us are struggling with health care and education. But you dont' want the state to pay for it. Yet I think we can all agree costs are out of control. So what's your solution?

Best wishes and my prayers to you and all of us struggling with this "ownership society"
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:36 AM   #53
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You know, I'm all for seperation of church and state...when it comes to religious matters/policies like core virtues, mission statement, curriculum, etc. But I don't see what my school charging me over twenty grand a year just for tuition has anything to do with religion. I wish the state could step in at some point and say "enough!" especially since plenty of the cheaper state schools are shit, leaving me with no choice but to go to a private school just for a decent degree.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:35 AM   #54
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Would it make sense to take a year off from school? The drive to get it done in 4 seems to add to the stress.
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Old 06-23-2005, 05:25 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
You know, I'm all for seperation of church and state...when it comes to religious matters/policies like core virtues, mission statement, curriculum, etc. But I don't see what my school charging me over twenty grand a year just for tuition has anything to do with religion. I wish the state could step in at some point and say "enough!" especially since plenty of the cheaper state schools are shit, leaving me with no choice but to go to a private school just for a decent degree.
I'm very lucky, VA has actually very decent state/public schools. Gov. Warner has fought pretty hard to get it that way, is my understanding.

May I ask where you are? What are the possibilites of transfering credits to a neighboring state, is the tuition too out of control?

NBC's advice seems good, too.

My prayers with you, hon!
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Old 06-23-2005, 07:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling



If I may--I'm confused by some apparent contradictions in your thinking, though. You don't want higher taxes--who does? And I don't support higher taxes on the working poor or middle class either. But you don't want the state to pay for it. So what's your solution?


I don't have a solution. I was just bitching.

That's kind of my point, I don't know if it would be that much better if it was paid for by the government, it still comes out of our pockets one way or the other...nothing's free. It would make it a lot easier for the rest of us, but...I don't really know what I think on the issue.

Quote:
It makes me crazy and breaks my heart to see so many people caugh in positions like we've all be describing here who vote for Republicans or conservatives (which you may or may not have done, this is a general remark not directed at you personally) thinking it will help their bottom line.
I can't vote yet, and I try to keep an open mind...but it would take *a lot* for me to support a conservative at the current time.

And I see a perfect example of what you're talking about here in my red state of Georgia...tons of poor rural types who proudly tell you that they voted for George W Bush and don't realise it's against their own economic interests.

Quote:
The upper middle and wealthy classes should be taxed higher! That's how things like health care and education get funded, as all of these examples from our Canadian, European and Aussie friends show. Yet the rhetoric of economic conservatives is that if we protect the interests of the rich, wealth will somehow "trickle down." This has been tried and it failed! In a capitalist society, working families need some sort of protections from the market. That's one of the very reasons public institutions were established in the first place by guys like Jefferson--because health care and education in a civilized, progressive leading nation should not be the privlege of the wealthy.
I guess why it seems like I was contradicting myself is that I do believe in low taxes, etc...(I would definitely not want a system like they have in France or Germany). It all sounds great in theory. But in "real life" I'd like to go to college, have basic health coverage, that sort of stuff.

Quote:
National health care isn't "socialism". Socialism is state control of the economy (though a real Marxist would argue that with me, but that's another thread). It's simply a national plan to be sure that everyone has access to some kind of basic health care. I personally think that 50 state plans will likely work better than 1 national plan, but we'd need fed. funding for it, since some states are less able to afford it. But the administration I think should be done at a state level. Regarding the VA, I can imagine why you weren't impressed. They're desperately undefunded, and recently, a bill was passed to further cut funding (by Republicans). I can dig this up if you like--saw it maybe 4 months ago. Now, is the public sector always well run? No, no more so than the private sector--but no one argues that we should get rid of that or scale it down because of its efficency.

I guess this ranting LOL is about one question: you like a lot of us are struggling with health care and education. But you dont' want the state to pay for it. Yet I think we can all agree costs are out of control. So what's your solution?
I would like the state to pay for higher education...healthcare is a lot more complicated. It'd be nice if the government could at least have controls as far as keeping the prices reasonable. Some people are getting seriously rich at the expense of most of the average Americans.

I'm sure the VA are underfunded. I hold serious resentments towards them. Rather than treat people, they underdiagnose (is that a word?) and let them die. They really, really suck.

Quote:
Best wishes and my prayers to you and all of us struggling with this "ownership society"
that would be most of us wouldnt it?
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Old 06-23-2005, 08:05 PM   #57
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Originally posted by Sherry Darling

May I ask where you are? What are the possibilites of transfering credits to a neighboring state, is the tuition too out of control?

Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI. I could transfer to another school, but there's not really around here that...meet my standards? Taking classes at other schools and transferring those credits to Calvin is tricky. If it's not a very good school, you can't transfer those credits. If it's OK, you can transfer credits, but not grades (so, you can't go to the local community college and take an easier summer accounting class to get an A that boosts your Calvin GPA). Sad thing is, Calvin's considered a "best buy" for a school of it's size and quality of liberal education.

Taking a semester off adds fuel to the flames. I lose my job and lose my grace period for loan re-payment. Then, when I come back 6 mos or a year later, tuition is up another 6%.
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Old 06-24-2005, 06:44 AM   #58
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy


I honestly don't get that you have to pay for medical insurance just incase you get sick?! It scares me. Is it as bad that say, you didnt have medical insurance and you broke your wrist you would have a bill to pay?!
And there have also been (sometimes true) horror stories of people seriously injured or desperately sick who have been turned away from the hospital without care because they have no insurance. They are not simply thrown out on the street, but are transferred to a hospital (possibly some distance away) that receives city, state or county funding for the treatment of charity cases, but this delays treatment.

You sometimes see jars on store counters asking for donations to the Joey Smith Fund; donations to help a family raise the money for an operation, medicine, or treatment for a sick child.
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:28 AM   #59
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That's really sad, and rather pathetic. I dunno, if I worked at a hospital and saw somebody in serious medical trouble, I'd treat them right then and there-we could easily worry about all the money matters later, try and figure out something that would work. Saving this person would be more important to me then, making sure a family had a husband or a wife or a son or a daughter again.

That's why I have respect for that St. Jude's hospital that I've heard about...they treat kids for free, I believe, they don't turn people away because they're unable to afford the treatments and stuff like that. Very cool .

Angela
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:54 AM   #60
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VG: thanks for you response. There's no easy solution, that's for sure. The logic behind higher taxes is that, though it seems counterintuitive, IF the taxes are progressive and simple, working classes and middle classes save money, because of the money raised by the upper classes to fund universities, hospitals, etc. That's the only way it works--the $$ has to come from somewhere. The problem with the "low taxes no matter what" arguement (which is not what you were saying, but I hear talking heads say it a lot) is that then the lower classes/middle classes end up paying more out of pocket for all of the things we've been worrying/stressing/bitching about here (this has been a good bitching thread hasn't it? Bitch away! ) Anyway, something to think about.

LivLuv-- I was wondering that. Yeah, if you take off, you have to start repayment right away. It's the same at my university. Best wishes as you sort though all of this!
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