Shut Down All Nuclear Power Stations!!!

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

lazyboy

War Child
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Messages
647
Location
Clare, Ireland
Is there any1 who still thinks these things are safe and good to have on the earth???

Well there probably is a fair few, but I think they are just the most stupid things ever, and I know there is millions, probably a big majority that think the same. We gotta get rid of em!!

Here in Ireland, for like ages, we have been trying to get the British Government to shut down Sellafield, which is situated right across from Dublin in North Cumbria in Wales. But they've never budged, and at the moment, are actually increasing activity there!

I think it is ludicrous, and it has been proven that there is a much higher cases of cancer around that region and also even the east coast of Ireland than the rest of the country!

And since September 11th the cries for it to be shut down have gotten much louder, it's another Chernobyl waiting to happen, all it takes is another complete nut to go and hyjack a plane and use it as a detonator and with that ruin Ireland and the UK.

In the US same story, there is a Nuclear Power station just outside NY, forgetthe name of it. But if it was to be blown up, everyone within 20 miles would be immdeiately killed, wiped out, and the lives of 20 million people would be hugely affected. Still in Chernobyl and the surrounding areas like Belarus it is a very very sad state, new born babies in awful health, they fly hundreds of the kids over to families here in Ireland each year for a break, the fresh air is meant to add years to their lives, cos it is so unhealthy over there.

Does any1 want that? Does anybody actually overlook the risk and argue they should be kept going? Or is everyone in agreement that they are like a timebomb, and way too big a risk in the dangerous, unstable world we live in???
 
are you serious?

what is it you propose to replace all this energy with? windmills???

I think nuclear power should be utilized even more, because I would like to see the world depend less and less on the Middle East for it's fuel and energy supplies, at least until "other" options become more viable

everyone thinks of what would happen if another Chernobyl incident occured, but where and when have all these accidents happened? meanwhile, look at all the blood on the hands of the world at the expense of oil and gas

but yes, I agree that poorly run nuclear power plants should either be run safely or shut down altogether, since they are health hazzards and issues of global security, but somehow I don't think terrorists are interested in Belarus, and I'm not sure people in places like that want to have no jobs and no energy... it's a sad state of affairs indeed, but you simply can't take something away without providing an alternative
 
well you are definetely right that a poorly maintained nuclear power plant can become a hazard very quickly and a terrorist could definetely smash a plane into them. but you're logic of shutting all of them down just doesn't hold water.
all world stability issues aside, nuclear power is currently the best viable option for the power needs of our world. just when it looked like power consumption may drop about 50 years ago a wave of electronic devices began to appear each one needing to be plugged in, and then the internet further increased the demand.
though many other safer and cleaner alternatives are being considered, nuclear power remains the only one that is both technically and economically feasible.
this is all assuming that they are well kept and maintained-which of course costs great deals of money.
i don't know the specifics of sellafield, in fact i don't know the specifics of anything outside of canada. here in ontario a scathing report was released of the pickering nuclear facility, which provides power to much of southern ontario, a couple of years ago. i believe two of the four reactors there were immediately taken offline and are just now beginning to being reintegrated.
as for the threat of attack there are many dangers we will have to eliminate if we are going to begin living with that much fear.
if cared for properly nuclear power is the only 'clean' method of power generation available at the moment on a large scale.
lmao @ the windmills wanderer.
*disclaimer--i should mention my father is one of the directing engineers at the pickering site for atomic energy of canada limited(aecl), the company that built and with ontario power, maintains pickering. so in other words, nuclear power is paying for my way through college.

------------------
you can stuff your sorries in a sack mister
 
Yep I'm serious, maybe not about ALL, but definitely about Sellafield, if you guys wanna risk having your lives ruined forever by some fuckin nutcase, and its not so unlikely, if some1 told you before september 11th that 2 planes were gonna slam into the WTC and completely destroy the 2 towers, you woulda thought it unlikely too. Very unlikely. And the pentagon??? ha! C'mon, can't you see?? if those 2 landmarks can get hit bigtime, so can some "petty" power station.

And the windmills jibe
rolleyes.gif
Yeah actually, here in Ireland that is a strong proposal, I know they do it in other "non nuclear" countries, and they are strongly thinking about it here, not yer feckin wooden works of art, have you not seen any "wind produced energy fields" full of these things? And of course oil is needed, the US just hate depending on some1 else, that's there problem, and it is a big problem with such a big power as the US.

But in regards Ireland, the government has officially launched a case against Britian for the closure of Sellafield. So in that regard I am dead serious.

And I didn't say terrorists were interested in Belarus, where did you get that? I was merely pointing out what they went through, from merely being a neighbour to Chernobyl. I know Chernobyl was badly maintained, very badly, but no matter how well maintained, there is no guarantee that some psycho won't set off the disaster himself.

I think it is better to be safe than sorry, and I am sure there is an alternative, maybe it is a bit more complicated for the US, of course it is, but if you had seen the documentary on Chernobyl and how the people of the surrounding areas' lives were destroyed, you'd be thinking about looking at the alternatives.
 
Well, here is a distinction you must learn about nuclear power plants. I must admit: I know nothing about Sellafield, so I won't comment on it. The dangerous nuclear plants are the graphite core plants, like Chernobyl. The problem with them is that when power gets dangerously low, they have a meltdown--which is exactly why Chernobyl did have a meltdown. Modern plants do not have this problem, as when power does get dangerously low, the fission rods pop out automatically or something like that. Chernobyl was a dinosaur even in 1986. Most of the world had converted to the other model prior. As a result, I do question whether even crashing into a nuclear plant could really cause a "second Chernobyl," but I am not familiar enough with the science.

What is a valid concern is the waste from spent fuel rods. Increasingly, we are burying it deep underground, although, still, we have lots of waste refinement facilities still, which convert a lot of the waste into weapons-grade materials. I would love to see a day when nuclear fusion could become a reality, although I can just imagine the Pandora's Box that would open, since I bet it could create one hell of a big bomb as a result.

Melon

------------------
"Oh no...my brains."
 
I too think that any poorly run or 'crappy design' nuclear plant is just a huge disaster waiting to happen.. But I wouldn't be so quick to negate nuclear power.. Just recently.. and the name slips my mind.. and i'm too lazy to try and look it up, but I think there's a type of nuclear plant in South Africa called 'Pebble Rock Power Plant'.. It's like the size of a regular 20 X 20 School classroom, and It's one of those things that is 'meltdown' proof for some reason or another, but Give that a quick look into if you're interested...

And Also.. one more quick thing.. Lazyboy.. .. never put one of those 'roll eyes smiley faces' in your posts again.

Happy new year ya'll.
 
well following the events of september 11th there was a lot of publicity about security @ pickering nuclear, especially since it is about a half hour from downtown toronto.
my father told me pickering, much like what we imagined the WTC to have been, could withstand the power of a jet in existence at the time. ie a 727 could not do catastrophic damage but something more recent than the buildings construction, ie a 767, could.
immediately following the tragedy in the U.S. the canadian government was considering installing missile launchers at all of their nuclear sites though i believe that has now been abandoned.

------------------
you can stuff your sorries in a sack mister
 
the main concern is the the nuclear waste. that stuff is the real danger. it would be good if they can just put all the waste on a rocket and launch into the sun
biggrin.gif
not exactly economical but would work like a charm
 
This is for you Lemonite
rolleyes.gif


I learned from the best, Zoomanda
tongue.gif


And well, good points Melon, I'm just backing up the Irish government with regards Sellafield, not sure what tyoe of core it is either, but I do know it has been proven about the increased frequency of cancer cases around that area. And well about the nuclear power stations, I just don't think they are worth the risk they give out. Until they prove they are zero risk, then I am against them.

I'd rather live without power than have nuclear power.

it is admittedly much easier to say so in Ireland where we can have oil, gas, Hydro and wind power easily, but I just think it's crazy. But thanks for the other perspective melon.

Kobayashi, you just strengthened my fear with the fact they have abandoned strengthening security.
 
Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
the main concern is the the nuclear waste. that stuff is the real danger.

This is my concern with nuclear power plants...the waste they produce. There is no way to get rid of it. Right now there are waste sites where they have put old nuclear reactors in a pool to keep them cool. And that's how they dispose of them. That frightens me. If these facilities malfunction in any way, everything suffers. So until a safe way to dispose of nuclear waste is presented and put into action, I will have to advocate alternative ways to deal with producing power. And by the way, windmills are not so far fetched an idea, and neither is solar power. In fact, solar power should be researched heavily...If we would all build our homes in environmentally safe ways (ie. insulation, solar windows, etc.) our power eating would be reduced anyway...I would like to see this happen. But unfortunately, I think this kind of thing will only happen when we finally run out of oil.

------------------
"A Bono approved event is a good event!"

You can dream, so dream out loud!

"The way to be optimistic is not to shut your eyes and close your ears." -Bono

Create Light, Create Unity, Create Joy, CREATE PEACE!
 
Everybody who disapproves of Nuclear Energy alwasy uses Chernobyl, but the fact is; properly and efficiently maintained Nuclear Power Stations are not only safe, efficient and relatively clean (if you forget the waste, which is something that needs ratification) but also economically favourable. For every Chernobyl you have five Frances. France, almost 75% nuclear in its energy resources has never had an accident.

Not only should Nuclear Energy be allowed to continue as fuel (instead of say, coal and other foosil fuels), but it should be increased, countries should use more of it, as France does.

Having said that, though, I wouldn't like to live next to a Nuclear Power Plant, it could be run by someone like Homer Simpson, or even worse, Mr. Burns!

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE! HAVE A WONDERFUL YEAR!

ANt.
 
Here's some info on the Pebble Bed Modular Reactor that I mentioned.. An Excellent step up in safety and production....

THE PEBBLE BED MODULAR REACTOR: ESKOM?s BRAVE NEW NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY

Lindsey Collins, SAEP intern

April 4, 2001

While South Africa relies upon its cheap and available coal supply for 93% of the country?s energy demands, the manifold environmental problems inherent in a coal-powered economy illustrate the need to develop new and sustainable energy sources, for both economic and environmental reasons. In a country where nuclear power is historically connected to the apartheid regime?s weapons programme and, given the international stigma surrounding nuclear plants, it seems unlikely that nuclear power could re-enter the political landscape as a viable energy alternative. Yet Eskom, South Africa?s state-owned electric utility and foremost energy supplier, asserts that the development of its Pebble Bed Modular Reactor (PBMR) holds the potential to not only produce a clean, low-impact, affordable and sustainable form of energy, but make South African technology competitive in the international market and create new jobs domestically.

The PBMR is a relatively small (110 MW) nuclear power station. It combines helium coolant, a graphite moderator, and ceramic fuel pellets, which allow the reactor to operate at higher temperatures, increasing the amount of energy it can convert to electricity. The PBMR also creates less spent fuel than the pressurized water reactor (PWR), which is the design of the Koeberg nuclear power station operated by Eskom near Cape Town. Koeberg, the only nuclear-fired electricity plant on the African continent, is comprised of 2 965-MW reactors (actual total net capacity is 1,840 MW). In 1998, Koeberg generated 13.6 billion kilowatt-hours (bkwh) of electricity, accounting for 7.1% of South Africa's electricity generation.

The initial phase of the PBMR project, which was given the go-ahead by the South African government in April 2000, involves undertaking a feasibility study, an environmental impact assessment, and a public participation process. The test facility would probably be built near Eskom?s existing plant at Koeberg. The Environmental Impact Assessment is due to be completed in mid-2001, but has been somewhat delayed to provide greater opportunity for public participation. Although a final report has not been published, critics, most notably environmental activists from organizations such as Earthlife Africa, have voiced their concerns about what they deem to be Eskom?s hasty building plans, short-circuiting of the public participation process, and nuclear waste storage problems. On the other hand, another major environmental NGO, the Endangered Wildlife Trust, has come out in support of giving the PBMR "a fair and objective hearing" of its possibility as an alternative to fossil fuels.

The PBMR?s technology differs from conventional nuclear plants in many favourable ways. The proposed PBMR reactor, which is currently slated for construction at Koeburg near Cape Town, takes less time to build than standard reactors, takes up considerably less space, and, due to its design, is inherently accident-proof, thus eliminating the risk of disasters such as Chernobyl and Three Mile Island. The system, classified as a high-temperature reactor (HTR), is unique in its reliance upon small, graphite-encased "pebbles" of uranium oxide for fuel. The pebbles? physics ensure the PBMR?s smaller-scale and less expensive production, largely due to eliminating a need for the expensive safety backup systems found in standard nuclear power plants. Despite the apparent advantages of the new nuclear technology, PBMR plants still produce nuclear waste, the storage of which remains a major obstacle. The current plan is for storage to occur on-site because a permanent waste facility has not yet been located.

Proponents believe other nations will recognize the PBMR system as a solution to their own CO2 emissions problems and wish to buy the technology from South Africa. In the meantime, the plants will create new manufacturing jobs and, according to the Endangered Wildlife Trust (EWT), one of South Africa?s leading environmental NGOs, protect against the continued loss of biodiversity related to the burning of fossil fuels. Some advocates of the plant, such as Dr. Roger Wedlake, have suggested that the surplus of land surrounding a PBMR could be used "to maintain a largely undisturbed example of local flora and fauna." EWT contends that the PBMR will "provide a much-needed component to the South African economy, provide new jobs and new training skills, provide valuable foreign currency and, importantly, maintain a leadership role for South Africa in Africa and the world."

These optimistic speculations, however, rely upon the assumption that South Africa can finally make safe and cost-effective nuclear technology available worldwide, where so many other similar projects have failed. Steve Thomas, a senior research fellow with the Energy Policy Programme of SPRU, University of Sussex, notes the troubled history of international PBMR development and casts doubt on the viability of a lucrative nuclear energy market. Thomas writes, "the USA, Germany, the UK and France have now abandoned all interest in HTRs, while Japan's development programme is very slow and there are no plans to build commercial power plants." Critics also cite Eskom?s mislabeling of their "test" site, as construction and funding has already begun, as evidence of the PBMR programme?s "continuing disproportionate funding allocations, a lack of coherent energy policy and questionable application of law," according to Thomas.

Eskom, with an estimated R132m already invested in the project, has, however, been successful in lining up some international investors for its venture. In November 2000, Pennsylvania-based PECO Energy announced its investment in the development stage of the PBMR project. PECO joined British Nuclear Fuel as the two international investors in the project. Eskom and its South African partner, the Industrial Development Corporation, jointly hold over 50% of the shares in the project. A 10% stake is reserved for a black empowerment company.

While both sides of the environmental debate acknowledge the need for Eskom?s continued research into solar power, opponents of the PBMR claim that SA does not currently have the necessary facilities and resources to make nuclear power sustainable; thus investments in solar power are much more economically feasible.

Whether or not the PBMR technology?s benefits outweigh its risks, neither South Africa?s economy nor its citizens will benefit from hasty legislation and funding that would derail a thorough public participation process. Meanwhile, the results of the environmental impact assessment process are eagerly awaited by all parties.
 
Originally posted by lazyboy:
Kobayashi, you just strengthened my fear with the fact they have abandoned strengthening security.

hey i'm just telling you the truth.
granted there is danger in the products of nuclear power production, just as with any other feasible power generation, but there is also a lot of money, time, and people invested in finding ways to safely dispose of these byproducts

------------------
you can stuff your sorries in a sack mister
 
We need nuclear power, unless you'd rather rely on coal. Zero-emissions are pretty good for our ozone, better than all that CO2 we pump into the air. I'm sure there are ways to dispose of the waste. It would be a lot safer to use this than coal power (wasn't that London fog that killed all those people 30-40 yrs. ago from a coal plant?).
 
Originally posted by pub crawler:
Actually, nuclear power plants aren't very efficient at all.

I should clarify. With respect to $ consumed and E generated, nuclear power plants aren't very efficient at all.

To wit:

"High construction costs are perhaps the most serious obstacle to nuclear power expansion. Construction costs for reactors completed since the mid-1980s have ranged from $2-$6 billion, averaging about $3,000 per kilowatt of electric generating capacity (in 1995 dollars). The nuclear industry predicts that new plant designs could be built for about half that amount, but their total generating costs would still exceed currently projected costs for new coal- and gas-fired plants."
http://www.cnie.org/nle/eng-5.html
 
Originally posted by pub crawler:
I should clarify. With respect to $ consumed and E generated, nuclear power plants aren't very efficient at all.

To wit:

"High construction costs are perhaps the most serious obstacle to nuclear power expansion. Construction costs for reactors completed since the mid-1980s have ranged from $2-$6 billion, averaging about $3,000 per kilowatt of electric generating capacity (in 1995 dollars). The nuclear industry predicts that new plant designs could be built for about half that amount, but their total generating costs would still exceed currently projected costs for new coal- and gas-fired plants."
http://www.cnie.org/nle/eng-5.html

i was referring to emmissions.
once again, nuclear power provides the best overall balance of economic feasibility, environmental effect, and quality.

------------------
you can stuff your sorries in a sack mister
 
Originally posted by kobayashi:
i was referring to emmissions.


Oh, I wasn't responding to you specifically. I was responding to those here who have implied or flat out stated that nuclear power plants are efficient energy producers, which simply isn't true.




[This message has been edited by pub crawler (edited 01-02-2002).]
 
Originally posted by kobayashi:
hey i'm just telling you the truth.
granted there is danger in the products of nuclear power production, just as with any other feasible power generation, but there is also a lot of money, time, and people invested in finding ways to safely dispose of these byproducts


I know you were telling me the truth, and I thank ya for it, I'm not having a go at you!

My main reason for starting this thread was Sellafield, and the danger it poses to Ireland, through emmisions, waste, and also mainly the post sept 11 fear of freaks in world. You were saying about security not being tightened up, which I find worrying in these times. The threat is very real. But some of ye have also pointed out the stability of reactors etc, which is very nice to hear, as I ain't too up on the insides of Nuclear stations, but as far as Sellafield goes, there ain't 1 Irish person who has faith in the stability of that place, they have had problems in the past, and it's just a liability.
 
Originally posted by lazyboy:
In the US same story, there is a Nuclear Power station just outside NY, forgetthe name of it.

do you mean three mile island?

------------------
kahnarinha "funky-san" taylor, royal chat nutte for both interference and U2OL, as proclaimed by sir rafaroni (the mexico city treat) :D
U2: 62%
dd: 37%

-------
proof 2001 simon is bangable:
<Rox> I bang 2001 simon every morning
<J-Tree> you think he'd get tired from being hard all the time
virtual insanity
john nude!
 
There's a nuclear powerplant about 2 hours away from where I live. After 9/11 there was this huge "Well, what the hell do we do now that people can blow us up with planes?" They put more police around there. Good work guys! They'll never get us if there are more ground patrol cops there!
rolleyes.gif


------------------
It's the puppets that pull the strings.
 
http://wwww.britishnuclearfuels.com

That's a very informative website about British Nuclear Fuels Ltd who are the company who operate Sellafield.

Also, the concern about Sellafield now isn't regarding nuclear power, it's regarding the re-processing of nuclear waste.

If people are concerned about a terrorist attack on a nuclear power plant, you might also be interested to know that it has been suggested that terrorists could produce a nuclear weapon from plutonium obtained due to poor safety standards at Sellafield.

Anyway, there's a lot more information on the website so I won't bore you with my thoughts anymore
wink.gif
 
I think nuclear power is a bad form of power as not only is it a hazard as the plant could explode or waste could be used to make a bomb but also it does not only affect the people who built and use it. The radiation can spread and does from Sellafield into the Irish Sea which then affects the Irish who had nothing to do with producing the waste and so should not have to deal with the side effects but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The process produces dangerous waste that we still don't know the full damaging effects of and it is not only our problem now with how to deal with the waste but it remains dangerous for 1000s of years so in generations time our childrens, childrens, children will be trying to clear up our mess. It has to stop before another disaster of any sort. PLEASE Especially shut down Sellafield. There is also a nuclear power station just down the road in Hartlepool. I have been there a few times on school visits but atleast if we must have nuclear power here it affects us the English and not anyone else like Sellafield does to the Irish. It's not right. The Irish don't make the waste and try to take care of their environment so it is unfair to put such a hazard near them
frown.gif


[This message has been edited by UV2001 (edited 01-12-2002).]
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom