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Old 05-23-2005, 10:02 AM   #61
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I don't think porn can fairly and effectively be more regulated than it is currently.

As for porn destroying relationships, I believe that the porn itself is incidental. It creates a situation that exposes issues with trust, self-confidence, and communication. I don't really care either way about porn and I know a lot of happy couples are OK with porn. There's something to be said about this...it seems these couples are OK with porn b/c they know how to communicate and have developed trust and respect for each other. If a couple is not at this point, then porn together or alone is not appropriate, but that doesn't mean it needs to be regulated across the board.
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:31 AM   #62
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


My idea of marriage is idealized, that's right. I am looking at marriage at how it should be - two people who love each other and are committed each other. Where is the love in looking at pictures of someone other than your spouse naked? Can you give me any support for that being a sign of love for your spouse? Even one? What good is served by a man looking at another woman naked?

n. If a man loves a woman, he will refrain from porn because he will be satisfied with her, and on top of that, he won't want to hurt her. If I knew your female friends, I'd tell them to go out and find men who would respect them and love them enough to not look at porn.
Nobody but nobody can understand the dynamics of someone else's marriage, whether ths outsider is married himself or not.

For you to constantly pontificate on what should be happening in a marriage is pointless for all of us, given your extraordinarily limited firsthand experiences with marriage.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:01 AM   #63
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I think you can still have views if you've never been married-I've never been, but based upon my parents' marriage and other marriages I've observed, and my ideals/values, I have my views. I don't force them on anyone, and I don't think anyone here is doing that

Anyway, I've been thinking about another issue related to this-if anyone here feels comfortable sharing. Are men and women really "wired" differently re this whole issue? I don't find porn that hot at all really, I'd rather watch a really sexy scene in a mainstream movie. For example, the other night No Way Out W/ Kevin Costner was on. Now that limo scene, to me that is sexy. I don't like graphic sex in movies, if you know what I mean. Of course that could have been edited, I don't really remember the details about the original version.

I admit, I looked at Playgirl magazine w/ my friends when I was in high school. Of course then it was giggly and all that, forbidden fruit, etc. But even then, not really my thing. To me it's far more sexy to leave things to the imagination-I'd rather look at a guy in a nice suit in GQ, to me that is sexy and appealing. Or an athlete in a tight uniform

I've seen a little soft core porn on cable, still really not my thing. I prefer to have a whole relationship story involved, etc.

You can generalize about how men and women view that , but it's interesting and more enlightening to hear individual opinions.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:05 AM   #64
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I think you can still have views if you've never been married
This is true, but you don't present your views on it as absolutes, which he does. Constantly.


On your other note, I do have to admit watching certain parts of Rattle and Hum in slo-mo.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha

This is true, but you don't present your views on it as absolutes, which he does. Constantly
Well I don't see it that way, I don't mean to be argumentative w/ you and he can answer for himself. I don't think he means to do that.

And there's absolutely nothing sexy about Rattle And Hum, I watch it strictly for the music
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:46 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

how marriage should be ... i think that's a dangerous phrase because it implies that there's a standard, and that everything that devaites from it is somehow less worthy. i think marriage should be what works for the individuals involved, and that if your ideal marriage, you would never look at pornography. fine, if that works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.
I am looking at marraige based on my Christian beliefs. And as you know, I believe that my beliefs are correct. That is my filter. However, everyone has a filter by which they look at things - I am not alone in that. Your filter is that the Biblical view of marriage isn't right. Therefore, how you do view marriage doesn't jive with the Biblical view of marriage.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
more power to someone who would divorce someone for owning a Playboy? i can understand porn addiction, kiddie porn, violent porn ... but i cannot understand a relatively mainstream magazine like Playboy. divorce? isn't that far, far worse?.
Not according to the Bible. Christ said that anyone who even looks upon a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. The New Testament says that adultery is a viable reason for divorce. If a man won't stop lookin at porn if his wife asks him to, there's something wrong in his heart, and I would seriously doubt that he loves her.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

perhaps men look at other naked women simply because they are beautiful -- is that much different than looking at a beautiful painting, sunset, or landscape?
Do you think that men look at a naked woman in Playboy the same way they look at a beutiful sunset? Do you think it causes the same ---umm--reaction and feelings?


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i think it's simply unrealistic that, once you marry someone, all women become instantly unattractive. i don't think that happens -- if you were to get married would you not still find, say, Angelina Jolie beautiful? you might never do anything with her in real life (even if given the opportunity) and that's a good thing, but to deny that she is beautiful and sexy simply because you are now married is, i think, rather silly.
I never liked Angelina Jolie to begin with.

But to answer your question...women don't stop being "attractive", that's natural. Men don't pluck out their eyes when they get married. Men can't help it if a beautiful woman enters the room. But what they can help and what they do have control over is how they respond. A man certainly has control over whether he forms lustful thoughts about her, or even if he takes a second look at her. Men need to learn to do that sort of thing (control their thoughts), for the sake of their marriage and to do the right thing by their wives.

I've never been married, but I've been love, and when I was, I could see a beautiful woman and not have any thoughts about her whatsoever.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:54 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


This is true, but you don't present your views on it as absolutes, which he does. Constantly.
The way I view marriage is based on my Christian beliefs. I believe that my Christian beliefs are correct. Therefore, I believe that my views on marriage are correct.

In believing that my beliefs are correct, I am doing nothing different than most people in this forum, including you. You have made a statement that reflects your belief that my absolute beliefs aren't right for everyone. That, whether you admit it or not, is an absolute statement of your absolute belief.

We all have filters by which we judge things, including you.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Well I don't see it that way, I don't mean to be argumentative w/ you and he can answer for himself. I don't think he means to do that.
Thank you, Mrs. S

All I am doing is expressing my views on marriage which are based on my Christian beliefs.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:00 PM   #69
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i suppose i don't understand the filter then -- i don't think that taking my experience and then filtering it through a 2,000 year old text is a good way to live. my experience tells me that people are complicated, and that the only constant is deviation, and you do more harm condemning those who fall from arbitrary standards that you do enabling people to solve their own problems.

this is a difference of opinion, and that's fine, but i also know that there are people far more well versed in the Bible than i am who would disagree with your understanding of what Christ says -- but i won't debate you on that point, because i simply don't know enough about specific Biblical instructions. i would assume that the Bible would/should be elastic and a constantly evolving text -- but that's just my viewpoint.

my filter has nothing to do with my view on the Biblical view of marriage -- i don't really care. marriage is a social contract, and traditional marriage, if there is such a thing, is one man and many women. i'm interested in what works here and now -- i would argue that my filter is that i don't have a filter, or that i try not to have one (and we can argue that this then becomes, in and of itself, a filter).

i guess i don't agree that you can help having lustful thougths -- they seem pretty much involuntary to me, but you choose whether or not to act on them. though i suppose you could train yourself to think about baseball or whatever ... that seems to me to be repressive, and unhealthy.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:02 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


The way I view marriage is based on my Christian beliefs. I believe that my Christian beliefs are correct. Therefore, I believe that my views on marriage are correct.

In believing that my beliefs are correct, I am doing nothing different than most people in this forum, including you. You have made a statement that reflects your belief that my absolute beliefs aren't right for everyone. That, whether you admit it or not, is an absolute statement of your absolute belief.

We all have filters by which we judge things, including you.


forget beliefs. what do you *think*?

believing seems to me to be a passive activity, where as thinking is active.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:03 PM   #71
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I really don't care if my boyfriend looks at porn. I really don't even care if I walk in on him jerking off to porn. I'd rather him do that than have an affair with another woman. As long as our relationship is otherwise strong and healthy (and yes, I do believe porn can be a part of strong, healthy relationships) I have no problems with it.





further evidence that joyfulgirl is really a gay man
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:03 PM   #72
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forget beliefs. what do you *think*?

believing seems to me to be a passive activity, where as thinking is active.
That I have to disagree with. I think belief is (or should be) the result of a great deal of thought, doubt, research, wrestling, dreaming, praying...belief is anything but passive. Beliefs are often tested and developed and changed--and that's all good!--but they are not, and cannot be, passive.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:05 PM   #73
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That I have to disagree with. I think belief is (or should be) the result of a great deal of thought, doubt, research, wrestling, dreaming, praying...belief is anything but passive. Beliefs are often tested and developed and changed--and that's all good!--but they are not, and cannot be, passive.

i would then call that "faith."

i'm starting to get an allergy everytime i hear someone on the news saying, "this is what i believe." that seems like such a cop-out, a way of not thinking.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:19 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i guess i don't agree that you can help having lustful thougths -- they seem pretty much involuntary to me, but you choose whether or not to act on them. though i suppose you could train yourself to think about baseball or whatever ... that seems to me to be repressive, and unhealthy.
Here's what I have learned from experience on this subject.

First let me say that I am not one to see a beautiful woman and immediately think "I want to go to bed with her". It's never really struck me that way.

But I do know that there are certain situations I can put myself in and out of that will affect how likely it is for a lustful thought to pop up. For instance, if I am somewhere and a whole gaggle of scantily clad women arrive, and if I want to maintain a pure thought life, it is best for me to leave that vicinity. If I stay there, the thoughts are more likely to mainifest. By the same token, I am not going to go to places in the first place, if I can help it, that will increase the likelyhood of lustful thoughts.

But imagine I'm standing there at the mall, and a beautiful scantily clad woman passes in front of me. That first thought might hit me "oh man, what a beautiful bod". There is no law in theh world that syas I have to stand there and take a second look or have a second thought. If I dwell on that thought, if I let it stir up lust in my heart, that's my fault, no one else's. I can look at something else and start thinking about something else. I have done it many times. I make a habit of "bouncing my eyes" away from certain sights, and I do the same with my thoughts.

Thaht's not "unhealthy repression". That is simply training myself to behave in the way I want to in the first place, to concentrate on the the things I want to fill my mind up with anyway; to, in the words of the Bible, "set [my] mind on the good things of God".

In so training, even my initial thoughts become less and less lustful. And I don't miss it. I don't want to lust, never did want to lust. I'm going to take the proper steps to avoid lust as much as possible.
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Old 05-23-2005, 12:21 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




forget beliefs. what do you *think*?

believing seems to me to be a passive activity, where as thinking is active.
Belief is not passive. Not at all. I can not separate my beliefs from who I am or what I do - they are intertwined like a strong and sturdy weave.

What I "think" is not in contrast to my belief.
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