I've just finished reading this whole thread and can empathise with both sides of the spectrum (Irvine-80sU2isBest). No, I am not fence-sitting
, I genuinenly think that both sides have made valid points.
As for marriage, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with having ideals and lofty goals regarding marriage, even when you've never been married in your life. I think it's positive to have high goals you want to strive for and, taking into account that 80s is guided through life by his faith, I think his views on this "should" be lofty.
Reality may teach him different ways once he's married, and I like what Martha said about being adaptive towards one another and not let some ideal get the upperhand over what your spouse is trying to communicate to you. That would defeit the whole purpose of being genuinenly loving, imo.
As for pornography, celibacy/having casual sex while being single, etc...I just conclude that this is so very personal. I know for myself that my views on this have changed throughout the years and I'm sure they'll continue to. Nothing is set in stone.
I do disagree strongly with you though, Irvine, about your statement that we all need to feel loved, hence feel the need to have sex with someone while we're single. And that the act of having sex is about as close as one can get to feeling loved while being single. Having casual sex, to me, was (and I say "was") like an itch I needed to scratch (no pun intended) , an urge I didn't want to control, didn't feel the need to control, as I saw nothing wrong with casual sex. I never associated it with love, though. I can perfectly separate the two.
I have decided quite a while ago to train myself to be more disciplined (guess that's where my athletic background comes into play) My social life changed drastically as a result and I feel so much more balanced and stronger.
This is a personal thing to decide and one may feel to act in different ways, depending on where you are in life. I don't frown upon either way of living, casual sex/celibacy, just as long as you keep questioning yourself and your personal set of morals, or when you're religious, your faith. I hesitate to sound hippity-hoppy, but basically I'm saying : keep it real! (cringe!) Take care of yourself, heart, body, mind and soul. That's a personal credo of mine, anyway.
Pornography in a relationship is just another one of those very personal things a couple needs to decide together. I do agree with 80s that respect should prevail always and that, even though a man might know for himself that his desire to watch pornography is innocent and harmless, he shouldn't do so if he knows his wife can't deal with that for any variety of reasons. If she has self-esteem issues f.e., yes, he should help her with getting higher self-esteem, but only with the goal of helping her as she should help him, NOT to "finally" be able to watch the frickin porn, of course
.
In other words, he should be able to sacrifice the porn if it makes her feel better. If porn is *that* big a need, he has issues, imo.