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Old 10-24-2003, 11:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I see your point, and the example I used wasn't to paint any definate comparison as they are entirely different situations but more to say that we all have different ideas of what a life worth living really is.
This woman (Terri) is responsive. She may be unable to live with any of the freedom or ability we take for granted, but she is alive.

Here's another example. Once I worked in OOSH care and there was a client who required tube feeding. She had brain injuries and couldn't walk and had little to no gross motor capability. She would smile though, make a sound to laugh, another to show displeasure. Is she any different? If her parents decided she had no quality of life whatsoever, would it really be ok to let her die? I'm asking genuinely, not to be a smart arse. I can't be comfortable with this.
I guess I just put myself in that position. Would I want to "live" like this? My answer would be no.

I understand the other side, I do. But I guess it comes down to the line of forcing someone's body to keep ticking, when their heart and mind may not want to continue. I guess we'll never know.
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Old 10-24-2003, 11:30 AM   #17
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I am not sure that the woman is able to process information even. Does she fully understand what is being said around her, yet can't respond? I very much doubt it.
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Old 10-24-2003, 11:41 AM   #18
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"Quality of Life" also leads to a slippery slope in a variety of other areas, including severe cases of autism, downs syndrome, etc. My guess is that no one would want to "live" like that either.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:03 PM   #19
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Not to mention you said something about contention amongst the doctors as to whether she could possibly recover in some way, nbc. Is it a risk anyone could dare taking?
It's a hard enough issue in more clear cut cases, let alone this one with many grey areas and a lot of unanswered questions.
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
"Quality of Life" also leads to a slippery slope in a variety of other areas, including severe cases of autism, downs syndrome, etc. My guess is that no one would want to "live" like that either.
Which is why it is important to have a living will, in which you can outline some boundaries.

And I would hardly compare things like autism or Trisomy 21 with a "persistent vegetative state."
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
"Quality of Life" also leads to a slippery slope in a variety of other areas, including severe cases of autism, downs syndrome, etc. My guess is that no one would want to "live" like that either.
I'd be careful making this comparison. I have worked with some severe cases of downs and a few people with autism, and where it may be true there are certain functions in life they can't perform as well as others, these individuals know how to and are comprehensive of the ups and downs of life. Many are very joyful individuals.

I don't see this as a "quality of life", I see it as how do you define living. Is a beating heart enough to define living?
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:27 PM   #22
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It is just such a sad situation. Very interesting points in this thread, such as the "quality of life" issue.

All I know for sure is that I cannot put myself in the place of her husband or parents. But I did wonder if there might be money involved re the husband, so I hadn't heard that before. I would hope to God that this is not his motivation, and give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

You might think you would behave a certain way in that situation, but until you actually are in it, you never know.

I just know that I would not want to be kept alive like that, only because I would want to go on to my next life, which I believe I could do, and hopefully would. It is important that people consider legal documents before anything like that happens.

All life is precious, certainly Terri's is, and I just hope to God that things work out somehow
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'd be careful making this comparison. I have worked with some severe cases of downs and a few people with autism, and where it may be true there are certain functions in life they can't perform as well as others, these individuals know how to and are comprehensive of the ups and downs of life. Many are very joyful individuals.

I don't see this as a "quality of life", I see it as how do you define living. Is a beating heart enough to define living?
I was only making th econnection to bring a long, hard look at the phrase "I wouldn't want to live like that". Having a "touch of" autism, I am very sensitive to the issue.
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Old 10-24-2003, 07:29 PM   #24
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When my mother had her fatal heart attack this past August, I knew that even before the paramedics arrived at the house that she had gone without oxygen for what seemed about 5 minutes. I told them even if they brought her back , she would be brain dead and her wishes were not to be put on any artificial means of life support. Thank God she had a Living Will, and I had Power of Attorney. I miss her dearly, but I also respected her last wishes.
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Old 10-24-2003, 09:07 PM   #25
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That "life not worth living" bit...all I was trying to say with that is that being in a vegetable state for the last 13 years and not really being able to talk to those you love and not knowing what's going on around you for the most part...to me, that wouldn't be a "life" that I'd wish on anyone. If it came off wrong to anyone else, I apologize.

I get what those of you who disagreed with that line are saying. This is certainly a tough issue.

Quote:
Originally posted by tiny dancer
When my mother had her fatal heart attack this past August, I knew that even before the paramedics arrived at the house that she had gone without oxygen for what seemed about 5 minutes. I told them even if they brought her back , she would be brain dead and her wishes were not to be put on any artificial means of life support. Thank God she had a Living Will, and I had Power of Attorney. I miss her dearly, but I also respected her last wishes.
Exactly.

To me, I'd just feel like I was being selfish to keep someone who's basically brain-dead alive because I would have a hard time letting them go. Would it be hard to let them go? Absolutely. But if they're basically brain-dead...well...

But, again, that's just me. Those who disagree have their reasons.

And tiny dancer, my condolances to you on the loss of your mom. .

Angela
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Old 10-25-2003, 04:21 PM   #26
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I have been through this and I know first hand that it is difficult and heartwrenching. I never considered stopping my sons tube feeding and I did this for 12 years. He was alive and as hard as it is to believe, had even less quality of life than this woman does. I was never even approached with the option by any doctors and never brought up the issue with them. It just wasn't something I could fathom, starving my son to death? When he died that was his time to go. I did have a dnr (do not resuscitate)form on file for him and I have my own living will, since I don't want anyone to ever wonder what my wishes are, and I don't want to live in this state either. I understand the parents of Terri.
It doesn't matter where the husband is coming from.
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Old 10-25-2003, 04:33 PM   #27
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Thank you for sharing that with us sue4u2, and I'm so sorry for your loss
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Old 10-25-2003, 06:00 PM   #28
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I'm so sorry sue, I had no idea that you had gone through that
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:47 PM   #29
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Thanks, I've come a long way since then and still trying to catch up with all that I wasn't able to do since there were no nursing homes locally I could get help with in the late 80's and mid 90's. and I wasn't about to send him out of state. Which is the issue I take with the husband. By all accounts, and granted I haven't read every detail about this, but he doesn't have to stay with her 24/7. She's in a nursing home, I think, and the money is provided by the settlement from a lawsuit aganist the Dr or Dr's- pays for her care. I can't help but wonder if that is part of his motivation, the money is either running out or he doesn't want to spend the rest of it for whatever remains of her life. You just can't put someone else away, because it's becoming inconvenient. Why not after 5 or 8 years? Was there some reasoning that it would be looked upon differently by the court's now..??? Geez what kind of doors would that open?

Edited to say: I don't want to sound judgemental towards this guy. These are just my observations.
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:47 PM   #30
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I'm so sorry for your losses, Tiny Dancer and Sue.
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