should saddam hussein be removed from power? - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-05-2003, 02:42 PM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,422
Local Time: 08:26 AM
should saddam hussein be removed from power?

option #1: yes.

option#2: no.

feel free to respond.
__________________

__________________
JOFO is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:07 PM   #2
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 09:26 AM

You should have made this a poll!!



To answer your question, yes I think he should be removed
from power but I think this will only succeed if the uprising
comes from within, i.e. the Iraqi people. You cannot force
these chances upon a country if the citizens are not ready
to take up these arms themselves. It would be to easy to
fall back in the same pattern again if another strong leader
stands up.

So, I think the only option is to put all our energy in a strong
opposition (which is in exile and divided at the moment) and
let them go in and take over when the time is right and provided
if they have the support of the Iraqi people.

The time isn't right yet.
__________________

__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:23 PM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 08:26 AM
The Iraqi people will never have the ability to overthrow Saddam. A brief study of Iraq's overlapping Security structure and the loyalties and desires of the Republican Guard will show that. Any opposition movement would have to have the size, training, and capability of the Republican Guard. Any development of such and opposition would be quickly snuffed out as it has on multiple occasions in the past. Thousands have already died attempting to get opposition movements going. Peope in Iraq live in a constant state of fear. Iraq is the ultimate Police State. Saddam has more control over the people than Hitler ever did over his.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 03:44 PM   #4
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Saddam has more control over the people than Hitler ever did over his.
that is an outright lie and if you want to mix world war 2 comparisons with this situation ill be more than happy to as well.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:00 PM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 08:26 AM
Flag Pole Pear,

That is not a lie, but based on my research into the whole topic. Saddam studied both the security measures of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Both of those regimes never had 12 different security agencies that spied on each other. They also did not have much of the technology that Saddam has today to employ in such security matters.

I most warn you though, I am comparing the Police state of Iraq vs. that of Germany, Not Germanies capability back then military wise vs. other countries. I'm talking about internal and domestic security for the regime vs. the people. I'm ready to discuss all of Saddam's 12 security agencies in detail if you like.

Nazi Germany lasted 12 years and attempts to kill Hitler came very clost to in fact doing that. Over the past 35 years and 24 years when Saddam assumed full power, Saddam has never once been injured. All covert operations have been a disaster. Internal opposition by itself has never come close to toppling Saddam.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:03 PM   #6
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:26 AM
look, im not gonna say that iraq doesnt have what you say they have (in this instance). its just that the gestapo and ss as well as the sd were VERY thorough, and i highly doubt iraq has the funding to create the agencies that the germans once had.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:08 PM   #7
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:26 AM
nevertheless were off topic, sorry jofo.

sting2, if you want to discuss this issue further then we may as well do it in one of my threads, i dont mind.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:09 PM   #8
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 08:26 AM
Most of Germanies funding went to building up the military developing weapons and fighting the war back then. Its not to say that Hitlers Security agencies were not thorough, they were. But Saddam studied that intensely when he was younger. He studied the mistakes that both Hitlers security and Stalins security made. Saddam has created a domestic security structure the likes the world has never seen. It already has a better track record, and a longer track record than Hitlers security structure.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:15 PM   #9
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:26 AM
i dont think so, sting. but ofcourse its a matter of opinion, when it comes down to it.

hitlers security structure was not what brought him down. starting a two front war did, meaning his involvement with the wehrmacht was his ultimate mistake.

hitler sent about 6 million jews to their death alone. militairy casualties were enormous as well. the way he went through commanders, generals and even FIELD MARSHALS proved that his security was air tight. how? well think about it this way, if you piss off enough people and the enemy is at your door and your not fooled by his lies anymore, you will fight back. unless ofcourse, you simply cant.

which is what happened.

sure there was an instance where hitler should have been killed in 1944, but saddam should have been killed during the gulf war, several times over.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:21 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 12:26 AM
I for one would like to see him go.

I think chances for stability in the Middle East would be greatly increased if he were gone.

The U. S. could put pressure on Sharon for a reasonable settlement with the Palestinian people.


All that being said, I think that Bush and Company have handled this in a ham-fisted way.

They needed to gradually build an irrefutable case for Saddam to go and not look like a bunch of cowboys trying to impose their unilateral view on the world body. They lacked patience, finesse and have damaged U. S. credibility.

Should Saddam go? Yes.

Has Bush made this outcome widely desired and sought after? Unfortunately he has failed.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 04:52 PM   #11
Bordering Purgatory
 
Flag Pole Pear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 794
Local Time: 02:26 AM
deep, i actually believe bush has managed to persuade the general public to turn against war more than for it.

his popularity polls are a testament to that.
__________________
you could have it all
my empire of dirt
i will let you down
i will make you hurt
Flag Pole Pear is offline  
Old 02-05-2003, 07:33 PM   #12
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 08:26 AM
Flag Pole Pear,

I'm not comparing the international situation faced by Saddam and Hitler or the capabilities for dealing with that, I'm just comparing internal security and capability vs. potential opposition from within. The analysis I have been reading shows that in this specific regard, Saddam's capabilities are superior.

Lets go back to the track record. Saddam has survived in power for decades vs. whatever internal opposition there is. Hitler survived in power 12 years although he was not brought down by internal opposition. But where the record really shows Saddam's security vs. its internal opposition superior to Hitlers is the fact that after several decades, Saddam has not recieved a scratch, while Hitler was wounded.

Saddam has 12 different internal security agencies, some of which have the sole role of spying on the other security agencies. In addition, Saddam has technology available to him for internal security that Hitler never had. How many Body doubles did Hitler have? How many food tasters? Did everyone that met Hitler have to take a shower right before they met him, and then go through a thorough scan for chemicals. Did Hitler sleep in a different location every night that he was in power? These are just a few the examples of things that Saddam has around him.


Bush has gone the United Nations track the whole time, and clearly the USA and other nations have every legal right to go to war because of UN Security Council resolution 687 that authorized all Subsequant action to bring Saddam into compliance with Security Council Resolutions. When is Saddam going to comply with the conditions of the ceacefire he signed back in March 1991?
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 02-06-2003, 01:11 AM   #13
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,422
Local Time: 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep
I for one would like to see him go.

I think chances for stability in the Middle East would be greatly increased if he were gone.

The U. S. could put pressure on Sharon for a reasonable settlement with the Palestinian people.


All that being said, I think that Bush and Company have handled this in a ham-fisted way.

They needed to gradually build an irrefutable case for Saddam to go and not look like a bunch of cowboys trying to impose their unilateral view on the world body. They lacked patience, finesse and have damaged U. S. credibility.

Should Saddam go? Yes.

Has Bush made this outcome widely desired and sought after? Unfortunately he has failed.

deep, I actually agree with you. (I think).

bush has handled this like drunken cowboy in a standoff with another drunken cowboy. he has hurt the united states' image, in my opinion, with regards to the worlds' perception of us.

that does not change the fact that iraq is lying and deceiving the u.n... saddam must go; how he goes is really his choice at this point....be it a suitcase or a cruise missle.
__________________
JOFO is offline  
Old 02-06-2003, 05:38 AM   #14
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 09:26 AM
The Iraqi people should have the choice to remove Saddam if they want to (maybe elections under UN control?)
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 02-06-2003, 09:23 AM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
The Iraqi people should have the choice to remove Saddam if they want to (maybe elections under UN control?)
Great idea. But it would take military action to enforce such elections or to even allow a true second party.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com