Should protestors be allowed to protest on military bases? - U2 Feedback

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View Poll Results: Protesting goes to far when:
people protest outside military bases. 7 31.82%
people go onto military bases to protest. 6 27.27%
people go and destroy equiptement on military bases. 9 40.91%
Protesting cannot go to far. 0 0%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 03-16-2003, 06:57 AM   #1
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Should protestors be allowed to protest on military bases?

When does protesting go too far?
Should civil disobedience be conducted outside the bases?
Is going onto bases taking protesting too far?
Should protestors be allowed to destroy equiptment on the bases?
Should the military use force to defend equiptment?
Should deadly force be authorized to protect equiptment that is sensative to missions involving the safety of our troops?
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Old 03-16-2003, 07:02 AM   #2
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Air Force Base Authorizes 'deadly Force' Against Trespassing Protesters
The Associated Press
Published: Mar 15, 2003

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base are allowed to use "deadly force" in some cases if any anti-war demonstrators infiltrate the military complex, officials said.
Some anti-war activists have announced plans to trespass in hopes of disturbing Vandenberg's mission and to vandalize sensitive equipment they believe helps the war effort.

Vandenberg officials revealed Friday that military security police have always been allowed to shoot to kill, if necessary, to protect base residents and equipment.

It is more critical now that people understand the severity of that policy, a base spokeswoman said.

"This is not fun and games anymore," said Maj. Stacee Bako. "We're living in post 9-11. We don't know what's going to happen with the war effort in Iraq."

Military police will use their judgment, experience and training to determine if lethal force is necessary, she said.

"It's impossible for us to determine what their intent is," she said. "Are they protesters? Are there terrorists in that group and (do) they plan on killing everyone on base?"

The policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing.

"I think it does underline that people in the nonviolent resistance movement are willing to take some risks," Lumsdaine said.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAW9Q2CCDD.html
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Old 03-16-2003, 07:17 AM   #3
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Speaking as someone who's been involved in non-violent direct action before, I'd argue that people have the right to protest at military bases, including trying to block entrances to bases or prevent vehicles from entering or leaving the base.

I understand why protestors would want to destroy equipment on bases. If you're against this war then you think about the horrible destruction that equipment could cause and you want to do anything in your power to stop it. However, I don't think I support people actually destroying equipment. Preventing it from being used, I definitely support, but destroying it I'm not so sure about.

As for the article about the military using deadly force, to be honest I'm horrified by the idea that someone could be injured or even killed for protesting I understand that the military are concerned about the protestors intentions, but provided the protestors do not use violence against people, I don't think the military are justified in using extreme force against them.

Also, the police often use quite a lot of force against protestors. I saw a friend of mine get hit on the head twice with a police baton while we were protesting last year, and I once got pushed into a wall by a police officer. All of that happened while we were protesting NON-VIOLENTLY, so I think it's absolutely wrong for the police to use such disproprotionate force against us. If you want another example of the police using inappropriate force, then look at the killing of a protestor in Genoa a few years back
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Old 03-16-2003, 08:05 AM   #4
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I'm against violence of protestors and against violence of police/military when they remove the protestors.

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Old 03-16-2003, 12:36 PM   #5
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Generally, I think protesting goes too far if it can't be defined as "peaceful and orderly". No one should get hurt or intimidated at or around a protest. Looting, rock-throwing and other violent shenanigans are just plain wrong. I've protested in the same city as a military base but not directly on one. I don't want protesting on a military base to be illegal but I do question the judgment of it. I think the same city is fair game, however. Maybe it is better to keep the demonstration on Main Street. I don't like to make ugly situations uglier.
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:43 PM   #6
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I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this, or if votes in polls are meant to be secret, but I wondered who voted for which option in this poll?

For the record, I voted for the "destroy equipment" answer.
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Old 03-16-2003, 12:47 PM   #7
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The protestors shouldn´t be allowed to destroy military equipment. It wouldn´t make any difference, as they won´t have access to sensible equipment, I think - before of that they will be shot, so there is no sense in asking that question - and how could you destroy a tank, lol? Apart from that, U.S. military has so much equipment in store, it wouldn´t make any difference. Plus, they shouldn´t be "allowed" (by who?).

I know about police force though - not about military force. I know that the police forces of my country tried to provoke me when I was protesting against our government. I know police forces in other countries act like that, too.

The concrete example: while I was walking through the protestors lines, a policeman shouted to me to stop, I stopped, turned around and he asked to me if I had called him (insert rude word here). I answered "no, Sir, why, you´re just doing your job" (- thats my opinion, btw, I don´t blame the police for using force, because they don´t make the decision to use force).

Later on, I was talking to a good friend of mine, who happens to be a police officer, and I asked him what he thought - being confused about the situation. He told me, man, what didya think? This officer was trying to provoke you - if you had answered rude or picked up a bottle or whatever, he would have had a reason to beat you up, right.

So, that was kind of weird...

Same weird is the announcement of force to scare protestors off.

The event in Genova is tragic. It has shown that Europeans are not as far from Chinese methods of dealing with protests as some might think. We will see what happens in the U.S.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:02 PM   #8
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It's allways the police who does this, military force should never be used against the own country or against civilists.
That's why in germany the german Police (with a anti war government) had to remove the demonstrants in front of the american embasy and military bases.
Seemd kind of funny to me ;-)

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Old 03-16-2003, 01:14 PM   #9
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Klaus, you haven´t understood a word.

Speaking to you from my new location, the Oval Office, I dare say:

The protestors shouldn´t be allowed to destroy military equipment. It wouldn´t make any difference, as they won´t have access to sensible equipment, I think - before of that they will be shot, Donald says - and how could you destroy a tank, lol? Apart from that, U.S. military has so much equipment in store, it wouldn´t make any difference. Plus, they shouldn´t be "allowed" (by who, by me, or Donald?).

I know about police force though - not about military force (thats Donalds business, after all). I know that the cops tried to provoke me when I was protesting against our government (it was a democratic one, now this happened a long time ago when I was a young and innocent leftist hippie - we all have our past). I know police forces in other countries act like that, too.

The concrete example: while I was walking through the protestors lines, a cop shouted to me to stop, I stopped, turned around and he asked to me if I had called him (insert rude word here). I answered "No, Sir, why, you´re just doing your job" (- thats my opinion, btw, I don´t blame the cops for using force, because they have every right to do so - and if anyone is allowed to allow them, its me from the Oval Office).

Later on (a few years later actually, when I was happening to be governor), I was talking to a good friend of mine, who happens to be a cop, and I asked him what he thought - still being confused about the situation. He told me, Mister, what Dubya think? This cop was just trying to provoke you - if you had answered rude, offered him a spliff or had drawn your gun or whatever, he would have had a reason to beat you up, right.

So, that was kind of unconventional...

Same unconventional is the announcement of force to scare protestors off, but soon this will be part of the Patriot Act (I like it, and I hope some hippies will be scared off and not go to protest; after all i was one of them).

The event in Genova is tragic. It has shown that Europeans, especially French, are not as far from Chinese methods of dealing with protests as some might think. We will see what happens in the United States
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:15 PM   #10
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i voted for the "people go onto military bases to protest" choice.

i believe that our soldiers have the most important and stressful job in the country - particularly in times like these. i also believe that stirring things up and distracting them from their job is wrong and dangerous. i want them focused on their job not on the individuals protesting them. to me security always comes first. we wouldn't have our right to protest if it weren't for the soldiers fighting for and protecting our freedom, so why would i want to threaten that?

i'm all for protesting against the war. it's our right as citizens - but i feel it should be focused on the people making the decisions - i.e., the administration.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:22 PM   #11
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well said othershannon, i totally agree.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Flower
i'm all for protesting against the war. i feel it should be focused on the people making the decisions - i.e., the administration.
What, me?

I haven´t done anything wrong, Flower child
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Old 03-16-2003, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: Should protestors be allowed to protest on military bases?

When does protesting go too far?
When it harms other people or public or private property.
Should civil disobedience be conducted outside the bases?
It depends on the situation.
Is going onto bases taking protesting too far?
Yes.
Should protestors be allowed to destroy equiptment on the bases?
No. Hell no.
Should the military use force to defend equiptment?
They should be allowed to use the same level of force that civilian police are allowed to use in any other attack on private or public property or people. Perhaps the trespassing protestors need to make better decisions about what they attack.
Should deadly force be authorized to protect equiptment that is sensative to missions involving the safety of our troops?
If a terrorist or enemy soldier snuck on to a military base to conduct such an action, the military would rightfully use deadly force. That option is an unfortunate necessity. Unfortunately, said protestors would be putting themselves int he same category.


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Old 03-17-2003, 02:01 AM   #14
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Ok there is a whole school of thought that says that since the public pays for the army and votes in the leaders that control the army, that the public should be allowed to march willy-nilly into a base and destroy the equipment.

I don't buy it, and I have to admit that if any loony decides to invade a military with the intent of trashing it under the guise of a 'protest', he/she gets whatever is coming to them. Thats just plain foolishness.

HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER:

The public does own the roads and the land surrounding the bases. If the public decides to block a road off base property, they should not be harmed, and any harm brought to them should be prosecuted.

It may make life difficult for the army, but it is the right of the people to protest, irrespective of who they are inconveniencing.

Maybe they'd have to airlift the troops and equipment off the base or something, but to suggest that the military would have the right to shoot their way through a group of protesters sitting down on a public highway seems very wrong.

So I voted its going too far if they try and get on the base. Protest outside people, and stand your ground.
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Old 03-17-2003, 06:40 AM   #15
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I voted for the fourth option. Peaceful protests are needed, and violence must be avoided at all costs.

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