Should Illegal Aliens Be Allowed to get Driver's Licenses?

[Dreadsox]

Please exxplain whay you chose what you did?

 

[Angela Harlem]

You haven't voted

I said no. If any require an International licence, its no different to another visitor, but a full regular licence? I'd say no.

 

[nbcrusader]

This is wrong on so many levels.

In a day where Virginia makes obtaining driver's licenses more difficult for homeland security purposes, California goes the opposite direction. The 9/11 hijackers were able to move freely about with the aid of Virginia drivers? licenses.

Davis has just purchased potentially up to 2 Million votes for the Democrats. To register to vote, all you need is to apply for a driver's license. No proof of citizenship is now required. Davis has vetoed this bill before. Now, when a version with fewer safeguards is proposed, Davis blatantly panders to the Hispanic vote with his flip flop.

The reasons given in favor of SB 60 are unsupported and plain ridiculous.

Note: opposition to SB 60 is labeled racist by its supporters. In fact, they would take issue with the title of your thread. In California, nothing is illegal, it is undocumented.

 

[Rono]

I say yes,..who are we to say who is illigal in a world who should be belong to us all,...

 

[BAW]

Now, when a version with fewer safeguards is proposed, Davis blatantly panders to the Hispanic vote with his flip flop.

undocumented.

This is the ONLY reason this bill passed...if there wasn't a recall going on, this bill would have been vetoed like the last 2 times it came across his desk.

I think this is a REALLY bad idea. We tell our kids all the time that a driver's license is not a right, its a privilege yet our governor has now opened the door for anyone with a photo ID and birth certificate to get one..two documents that are incredibly easy to buy on the black market btw.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

i just hate the term "aliens".

 

[Dreadsox]

I tried to be more PC when I posted this thread in war by accident. Did this prevent you from voting?

 

[deep]

In California until 1994 these people were allowed to get driver licenses.

In 1994 Gov. Wilson supported proposition 187 which the people passed. It denied Gov. services to "illegal aliens". This meant that children of the undocumented would not be allowed in schools. The Department of Motor Vehicles stopped giving licenses to non-citizens then.

The courts over turned prop 187 as unconstitutional.

The DMV did not change its policy on licensing.


There are est. 2 million undocumented in CA.
Why not have them pass a driving test and written test about traffic laws? And be able to buy insurance?

 

[nbcrusader]

The change in law regarding drivers' licenses was passed by the legislature and signed by the governor (side note: Cruz Bustamante voted in favor of the restrictions back in 1994).

Davis bought more votes than safe drivers.

 

[deep]

The change in law regarding drivers' licenses was passed by the legislature and signed by the governor (side note: Cruz Bustamante voted in favor of the restrictions back in 1994).

Davis bought more votes than safe drivers.

Fine, the politicians got on the 1987 band wagon!

How is a driver who passed a driving and written test not a better and safer driver?

 

[Bunbury]

Illegal immigrants should not be driving in the first place. It's not safe for anyone, that's my main argement.

 

[deep]

Fine, the politicians got on the 1987 band wagon!

How is a driver who passed a driving and written test not a better and safer driver?

I meant to write the 187 band wagon.








unlicensed drivers should not be driving.
that is not safe.

 

[nbcrusader]

Licenses do not ensure safety.

Look at all the unsafe licensed drivers on the road today.

It is a nice sentiment however

 

[BVS]

How someone who is here illegally obtains a license blows my mind.

But in the same breath why are these people illegal? Do the immigration laws need to change? I agree somewhat with Rono, I mean this is a country founded on immigrants.

 

[Dreadsox]

How someone who is here illegally obtains a license blows my mind.

But in the same breath why are these people illegal? Do the immigration laws need to change? I agree somewhat with Rono, I mean this is a country founded on immigrants.

Yes, I agree this is a country founded on immigrants. However, people coming across the boarders illegaly, should not be allowed to aquire a driver's license.

This is the basic form of identification in this country. It can be used to open a bank account as well as be used to identify yourself before boarding a plane. In these times, where we are looking for ways to improve national security, it seems foolish to give someone the ability to come here illegally, yet obtain an official legal document, which in reality may help a terrorist.

FROM THE HOUSE SUBCOMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION:

[Q]One year after the September 11 attacks, there is no evidence that flaws in the design and security of drivers' licenses themselves facilitated the hijackers in carrying out their plans. From what we know, most of the hijackers were not using stolen, counterfeit or altered ID cards or ID cards from a foreign country. Rather, they were using legitimate state driver's licenses or non-driver ID cards obtained from DMV offices. The hijackers appear to have obtained these cards from several different states using methods that highlight basic problems in the process of issuing ID cards ranging from weak laws and procedures to the bribery of DMV employees. These problems are not ones that could be cured by introducing more biometrics in the cards themselves or by creating databases that link together state or commercial databases.[/Q]

[Q]The most alarming case of illegally obtained driver's license involves the September 11 hijackings. It has been reported that at least 13 of the 19 hijackers obtained valid licenses or non-driver ID cards from Florida, New Jersey or Virginia.[2][/Q]

 

[BVS]

Yes, I agree this is a country founded on immigrants. However, people coming across the boarders illegaly, should not be allowed to aquire a driver's license.

Right but what I'm saying is why do we have so many coming over illegally instead of legally?

 

[Dreadsox]

Right but what I'm saying is why do we have so many coming over illegally instead of legally?

Good point...shouldn't homeland security begin at our boarders?

 

[BAW]

Right but what I'm saying is why do we have so many coming over illegally instead of legally?

It takes years to go through the legal immigration process and most people who come here for financial reasons obviously can't wait that long.

They also know its pretty easy to get here and once they are here, they can work and live in the US for decades without being caught.

I guess we should be asking the powers that be in the immigrant's countries of origin why so many people NEED to come here just to feed their families?


And all that aside, our border security is a pretty big joke.

 

[deep]

Licenses do not ensure safety.

..

I agree.

However, would you agree that drivers who pass the licensing tests are more likely to be a better drivers?

 

[BVS]

It takes years to go through the legal immigration process and most people who come here for financial reasons obviously can't wait that long.

They also know its pretty easy to get here and once they are here, they can work and live in the US for decades without being caught.

I guess we should be asking the powers that be in the immigrant's countries of origin why so many people NEED to come here just to feed their families?


And all that aside, our border security is a pretty big joke.

It takes years? Are you sure about that. My wife's family immigrated here and I don't believe they had that long of a process and they obtained temporary work visas during the process.

But I think you're right it goes back to the why so many NEED to come here.

 

[deep]

My attitude on immigration has changed over time depending on where I live and what I experience.



I currently live in an city where about 94% of the population is white and affluent.

Most of the labor, hard work is done by immigrants for reasonable wages without benefits.

When I had a 30 foot palm tree removed I got three bids. $1000, $1000, and $400.
The $400. bid was from a Latino tree service. 4 workers, all day job. Spanish speakers, most likely undocumented.
In my affluent seaside town most of the Resort, Hotel workers, custodians, are these illegal aliens.
In the last 20 years the home builders moved to contractors that use undocumented because they are the non union, low bidders.

Of course the undocumented do all of the farm labor in this state. California is the breadbasket for the U. S., we produce more food crops than any other state.

To call these people criminal is not fair. It is ironic that all of the business owners that support the GOP would use all of their influence to stop the boarders from ever being truly sealed. The GOP uses immigration as a wedge issue to solidify the base. It is all just politics.

 

[u2sangel]

This is a little off track here but what some people fail to realize in the illegal immigrant equation is WHY are people coming to the US in the first place?Its because of POVERTY!They can;t feed their families and they are looking for a better life!Are any of you aware that employers cheat these people out of fare wages that they are legally required to get?The employees very rarely report this because of fear!My husband is a Mexican American who came to this country in the late eighties he went through the process of becoming a citizen(no easy feat these days)follows the law,pays taxes and is a contributing member of society.I do not live in California and I am aware that the illegal immigrant issue is one that needs to be addressed however it seems to me that some of this legislation is directed at hispanics and that does not seem fair to me!Noone was passing legislation to have my Irish relatives kicked out of the US a 100 years ago?As far as an illegal immigrant getting a drivers license I would have to vote no but I do understand why the majority of these people have come here!

 

[u2sangel]

BTW Deep great post!!!!!!!

 

[Angela Harlem]

Are they legally required to get that though U2sangel? If they are working illegally, they and the employee are breaking the law. No one should work for any less than the law states, but these people aren't legally allowed to work in the first place. Its a catch 22, they are desperate for money, have the ongoing saga of fighting red tape and are grateful to take whatever job they can to feed themselves and their families until they are cleared. The employee is grateful to have someone who wont complain, work for a great deal less than an average citizen. No one is doing it right in this kind of situation, and the government by lack of action keep allowing it to go on.

 

[Dreadsox]

Great Post Angela!!!!

Why have only 10 people voted though? So many views...but only 10 votes!!!!

 

[u2sangel]

I agree that the government needs to do something about this and btw yes whether someone is a citizen of this country or not employers are legally required to pay at least minimum wage and many do not pay these people that!

 

[zonelistener]

So many views...but only 10 votes!!!!

Stop checking the thread every three minutes and there wouldn't be so many views...

I am not sure if this is in every state....but I found it interesting that "Foreign students" can also get DL's for the short time they are in our country for school. This has created quite a few problems (higher insurance due to increased number of accidents caused by foreign students).

I don't think they are allowed to vote though....

 

[BVS]

I am not sure if this is in every state....but I found it interesting that "Foreign students" can also get DL's for the short time they are in our country for school. This has created quite a few problems (higher insurance due to increased number of accidents caused by foreign students).

I don't see this as a problem. They still have to obtain their license the same way everyone else does.

Where is your evidence that foreign students are any worse drivers than 16 year olds, senior citizens, women drivers(just kidding ) etc?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Do you know if they have international licences Zoner? I could easily study over there and drive for a mere $15 I think it is to swap mine. Not that I would, cos you drive on the wrong side of the road and all...

 

[pub crawler]

Fuck it.