Should Grey's Anatomy Actor Be Fired For Using The F Word? - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-20-2007, 04:39 AM   #76
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The issue is (thankfully) not the legality of the language - which I maintain should be free and legal; kike, sambo, eyetie, slant eye, spade etc. all offensive and hostile but allowed to be used by individuals against other individuals or groups.

The issue is if the employer should fire an employee for his behaviour and views - which I think is their right; the same logic that would protect the rights of a bigot to not hire somebody because they were gay also protects the right to fire somebody for being a homophobe or creating a hostile work environment.

And thankfully leaving it up to the people who's money goes into producing the show doesn't put any higher power in the position of deciding what constitutes universal acceptable speech and punishing those that violate it with all the double standards and hypocrisy that come with saying what is illegal speech - rule of thumb seems to be minority rules; no coincidence that the Victorian racial and religious vilificiation laws were pulled out against Christian nuts speaking out against Islam.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:38 AM   #77
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Originally posted by corianderstem


I guess if the reporter asked "Did you really call TR Knight a faggot" he could have responded "No, I did not" instead of saying the word again, but to me saying "I didn't call him a faggot" is a lot different than saying "You're a faggot."
But the question wasn't even addressed to him, it was addressed to TR (according to the reports I've seen about it). I don't know exactly what the question was, but Washington just jumped right in in front of Shonda Rhimes and the mic and used the damn word again when TR (and worldwide media) was standing right there-why the f would he do that? Clearly he didn't learn the first time, and like anitram said he lied about saying it the first time.

If people should be given second chances (and I believe they should, especially if they are truly sincere about acknowledging their wrongs and prejudices and ignorance), then how many times exactly do you allow them to say that about and around a coworker until you decide that enough's enough? And if it's about what's "PC" and liberal, well Hollywood is allegedly supposed to be so liberal, so then why wouldn't logic follow that he would have been fired right away? Rather it was downplayed as a "private" incident that was blown out of proportion. Not to mention that TR was outed publicly as a result, which wasn't his decision. He now has to work and do scenes with this man, and he has certainly handled the whole thing with so much more class and dignity than Isaiah has. He lied about it as of Monday- but all of a sudden now that there is public attention about it and attention from groups like GLAD he is all apologetic. How can you be sincere about that when you're still denying that you even said it?

And it's not demanding "special rights" to not want to be called a f word, the n word, a terrorist because you're a Muslim-whatever, in the workplace or anywhere else really unless you somehow are ok with it from your friends or whatever. When we start believing that that is a "special" right, well what exactly is the point of human existence anymore?

And I'm also surprised that so many people think that words like this are just words, but then again nothing here really surprises me anymore .
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:13 AM   #78
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But the question wasn't even addressed to him, it was addressed to TR (according to the reports I've seen about it). I don't know exactly what the question was, but Washington just jumped right in in front of Shonda Rhimes and the mic and used the damn word again when TR (and worldwide media) was standing right there-why the f would he do that? Clearly he didn't learn the first time, and like anitram said he lied about saying it the first time.

I didn't know that's how it played out - that's why I asked for clarification.

He's coming across like quite an asshole, I must say. I'd never heard of him until all of this (I don't watch GA), and his first impression with me is pretty awful. As I'm sure it's been for many, many people.
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:13 PM   #79
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


But the question wasn't even addressed to him, it was addressed to TR (according to the reports I've seen about it). I don't know exactly what the question was, but Washington just jumped right in in front of Shonda Rhimes and the mic and used the damn word again when TR (and worldwide media) was standing right there-why the f would he do that? Clearly he didn't learn the first time, and like anitram said he lied about saying it the first time.

If people should be given second chances (and I believe they should, especially if they are truly sincere about acknowledging their wrongs and prejudices and ignorance), then how many times exactly do you allow them to say that about and around a coworker until you decide that enough's enough? And if it's about what's "PC" and liberal, well Hollywood is allegedly supposed to be so liberal, so then why wouldn't logic follow that he would have been fired right away? Rather it was downplayed as a "private" incident that was blown out of proportion. Not to mention that TR was outed publicly as a result, which wasn't his decision. He now has to work and do scenes with this man, and he has certainly handled the whole thing with so much more class and dignity than Isaiah has. He lied about it as of Monday- but all of a sudden now that there is public attention about it and attention from groups like GLAD he is all apologetic. How can you be sincere about that when you're still denying that you even said it?

And it's not demanding "special rights" to not want to be called a f word, the n word, a terrorist because you're a Muslim-whatever, in the workplace or anywhere else really unless you somehow are ok with it from your friends or whatever. When we start believing that that is a "special" right, well what exactly is the point of human existence anymore?

And I'm also surprised that so many people think that words like this are just words, but then again nothing here really surprises me anymore .

I disagreed with you when you were so offended when he CALLED somone else that, but I could also understand it.

In this case, being offended just because he "used it again" to say he didn't say it is just ridiculous. It wasn't meant to anyone.
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:46 PM   #80
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It doesn't matter that it wasn't "meant" to anyone. He could have just as easily said "that word"- but clearly he didn't LEARN anything after the issues with the first incident, especially when the person was standing right there. What is ridiculous is repeating the same behavior and expecting a different result.

When the reporter asked the question that wasn't even directed at him, you know what he should have said? Yes I said that word, and I realize now I shouldn't have, and I apologize to TR first and foremost-and to the others on my show and the gay community. But he LIED, and THAT is offensive. And he hurt someone again, THAT is offensive. That kind of lack of sensitivity and self-awareness is offensive to me.

Last year I went to a skating show, Johnny Weir was in it. There was a girl (probably about 14 or so) sitting behind me who was a Johnny fan, and her family was giving her a hard time about it. Her father, not even caring obviously if there were any gay people around, said to her "he's a faggot anyway". I couldn't believe it, and I turned around and glared at him. I really wish I had said something, but what do you say to someone like that? Shame on me for not saying something. Shame on him for saying that to his daughter. But that's acceptable, right? It all starts in the family, if you ask me.

I just read this on msnbc.com. God he really is an asshole, shut the f up !

"On the red carpet before the Golden Globes ceremony, Washington, after hearing his wife asked a fashion question that the reporter described as “so gay,” joked, “I love gay. I wanted to be gay. Please let me be gay.”

Here's what a critic from TV Guide said on their site. Yes indeed, it does appear hypocritical for a show that wears its diversity as a badge of homor. And is headed by an African American female.

"Question: Hey, Michael, were you in the press room when Isaiah Washington hijacked the microphone and said, "I did not call T.R. Knight a f----t!" And, if so, care to give us the scoop?— Genie


Ausiello: I certainly was there, and I have the internal scars to prove it. It was by far the ugliest, most uncomfortable press-room moment I have ever experienced. And judging by the shell-shocked faces on the cast — particularly T.R. Knight and Patrick Dempsey, who have been class acts throughout this entire ordeal — it was a new low for them, too. And what's ironic about the whole thing is that in Washington's attempt to clear his name, he came off as an out-of-control homophobe who throws the f-word around like it's candy. (He's also playing fast and loose with the truth. Did he call T.R. a f----t to his face? No. Did he refer to him as one behind his back? Yes. T.R. says so himself on today's Ellen DeGeneres Show.) His continued employment on a show that wears its diversity as a badge of honor is the height of hypocrisy. If ABC wants to be remotely true to the principles Shonda Rhimes so eloquently espouses through the show, it has to do the right thing and fire Washington. Anything else at this point is simply unacceptable."
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:13 PM   #81
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A statement of irony is hardly punnishable offense? That seems as absurd as using the word faggotry in the context of bashing the faithful being scorned upon.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:26 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
In this case, being offended just because he "used it again" to say he didn't say it is just ridiculous. It wasn't meant to anyone.
Agreed. Ridiculous is the word for it.
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:02 PM   #83
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i'm actually surprised by how many people here believe that words are meaningless.
I am surprised too. I've never heard of so many people who actually live their lives in a communicative vacuum. If I were a grad student, I'd be really interested in these as case studies!

Assuming that in general, communication should always give the benefit of the doubt to the speaker and not the audience's interpretation is a pretty shallow way to live. I realize this is just one case and people have said things a LOT worse (Mel Gibson comes to mind), but if you really think that words are just words and in general, people should learn to shrug it off, think if what that really means. When your significant other says they love you, you should shrug it off and say "it's just words." When a good friend warns you about getting into a dangerous situation, you ignore it b/c "they don't really care, it's just words." IMO, this attitude makes for a really lonely, self-centered, and pessimistic existence.

I get really bothered when people say things they don't really mean. For those that are advocating that words have no meaning, I'd really like to know how many REALLY believe this and live your life like this. You can't apply this idea in some situations but not others. You either accept that all communication involves the context of the message and the attitudes of the speaker and the audience, or you don't.

I still maintain that in certain professional settings, some words have no place and should not be tolerated, regardless of the intent of the speaker or how the audience interprets them. This is just my view and I understand many will disagree. One of the reasons I went back to my old job is that this type of behavior is simply not tolerated. In my 4+ years, we've never had a single incident of one co-worker saying things that personally offended another co-worker or made the environment uncomfortable. We've avoided drama and backstabbing by being open, honest, and just using common sense when communicating. A co-worker told me we didn't hire this other person simply because he used the word "fuck" in his interview (I have no clue what context). We agreed that no one cares what language we use at home or in other areas of our lives, but at work we are expected to treat the customers and each other with a specific level of respect.

It really depends on the rules of where each person is being employed, so I can't say that the show or station should fire this person, but if he worked with me he would've been gone already, I know that for sure.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:06 PM   #84
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I just saw the video clip on Youtube of the incident.
IW grabs the microphone away from Shondra and address an apparent question from the press. It seem as though someone said something to the fact like Isiah is it true you called TR a ******? IW grabs the mike and says no I did not call TR a ******.

If you look at Patrick Dempsey he just puts his head down in disgust and then when he finally looks up you can tell he is pissed. The actor who plays Mark looks extremely uncomfortable in the situation.

IW could have and should have said something else. Repeating the word is just repeating the offense.

He could have said The situation b/t TR and myself is a private matter and has beed resolved.

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Old 01-20-2007, 10:44 PM   #85
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I do agree he exacerbated the situation, and should definately be talked to, perhaps mediation with the cast, work out what is and isn't acceptable on set etc.

I also don't think words are meaningless, but i believe the only carry power if you let them. If TR had laughed this off and given Isiah something back nothing would come from it. Not that I am laying the blame with TR not at all, im just saying that we can change what a word means. Queer used to be derogatory towards hoosexuals, now all over my uni campuses there are 'queer lounges'
Isiah is a tool, and obviously thinks its a big joke - which i think where the communication break down is, as i said, i think he should be disciplined, but to be fired sets a precident that really starts stomping on free speech. You may hate what he says, but we have no right to stop him (just as we have everyone right to respond with our opinions on something) I may not agree with him, definately do think he shouldn't have used the word a second time when he knew the furore over the first, but do believe firing goes further then it should.
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:08 PM   #86
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Originally posted by dazzlingamy
You may hate what he says, but we have no right to stop him
Of course you do. He is employed by a corporation which can set rules for what constitutes acceptable behaviour.

I worked at the #3 pediatric hospital in the world. They had rules about piercings, they had rules about nail polish, length of your nails, what you can wear, how you had to transport research animals on elevators, what type of gloves you had to wear, what products you could not bring into the common cafeteria, etc. All of those infringe on somebody's freedom of expression.

It is simply untrue that in this day and age, it is acceptable to refer to a coworker, IN your place of employment by a word which is a slur. To tolerate that exposes the workplace to potential legal action, not to mention it's disgusting.

This has nothing to do with turning a word around and making it something less than an insult. It also has nothing to do with how the victim takes the word. It has to do with what constitutes acceptable behaviour in the workplace. This isn't. Period.
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:26 AM   #87
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I also don't think words are meaningless, but i believe the only carry power if you let them. If TR had laughed this off and given Isiah something back nothing would come from it.
Maybe in a college dorm, but in a professional working environment....I totally disagree. Not only is it offensive, it's really immature.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:05 AM   #88
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I guess 'on set' they don't really have a set example of rules because otherwise Isiah would have be fired already if he broke these kinds of rules.

I still don't think you should be fired for a word, but i do understand why there are rules and regulations in place. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:45 AM   #89
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I think that the whole topic is in some sense a case of missing the forest for the trees, or something. (and no, that's not an opening to tell me 'so don't read it then'... it's typical of a lot of FYM topics and the approach to public affairs here).

I don't necessarily agree with everything financeguy said - words certainly do have meaning, and they do have power - but there seems this tendency to be able to have a six page discussion about what is, in essence, some actor keeping his his job or not.

I feel we live in pretty dark times, and some of these issues of bigotry et al are writ large on a canvas that dwarfs a guy on a show I don't even watch. I could care less if he's sacked or not.

While I disagree with people being called fags, and the stuff Michael Richards said or whatever, there has to come a point where I dole out the goutrage sparingly. There is only so much time and energy available to any of us.
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:56 AM   #90
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Furthermore - and this might clarify my thoughts (cause although I might not agree with everything financeguy says, I agree with him on one thing: you can't afford to put a word wrong or you'll be eviscerated. Read for meaning, guys.) - I feel a lot of discussions of this nature, hark back to an age where people like tv actors were in some sense 'public role models'.

I feel quite strongly that this era has long since passed. It's as dated as Elvis and his good-ol-boy routine. Quite simply, a corporation may enforce all sorts of standards on its employees. To the extent that those standards intersect with what we might consider 'good values', it is purely coincidental. If rampant homophobia looked like sending their ratings sky-high, I suspect the actor would be getting a raise (leaving aside the context of whatever it is he said... like I indicated, my interest in the individual actor is extremely limited).
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