Should Grey's Anatomy Actor Be Fired For Using The F Word? - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-19-2007, 06:11 PM   #61
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In war it's something different. For many it's something like a self-defense. Instead of having to shoot at Iraqis you say you're shooting at "Sand Niggers".
You will always try to degrade or dehumanize your enemy with such words because it makes it easier to see them as your enemy.

I wouldn't consider a soldier calling his enemies names the same as a person calling someone else names in private life.
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Old 01-19-2007, 06:13 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Ok a little off this subject but still part of the racial discussion, what if your a soldier in war, how would that apply?? From "Krouts" and "Japs" in WW2 to gooks in "Vietnam"? To "Sand Niggers" in Iraq?

http://theync.com/m011907iraq.shtml

Are the rules different?

I was having a discussion with my friend who is african american and is going back to Iraq at the end of this month and he said many soldiers use those words (well the last one)?
It's almost necessary to dehumanize who you're trying to kill in order to live with yourself. Yes the rules are different.

Re: this thread I think it's been blown way out of proportion. If he repeated the remark based on a question by the media I don't get the fuss. If he was going to get fired they should have fired after the original incident. Sounds like the guys just an asshole.
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Old 01-19-2007, 06:15 PM   #63
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Except that he initially apologized months ago (vaguely), then proceeded to lie and state that he never used that word and only after others on the cast called him on it, issued this apology. Therefore, I question his sincerity.

*Also, since he actually used the slur again, he's really gone beyond the second chance he was already given last fall.
Fair enough--though I agree with corianderstem that if the second slur refers to the Golden Globes comment it's a stretch to call that a slur when he was answering a question. The guy's clearly an ass and I don't care what happens to him. But I guess as others have said, referring to someone as a "faggot" to others is different to me than saying to their face in a hateful, threatening tone, "you're a faggot." If someone called me a "bitch" or a "cunt" to my face in the workplace I would file a formal complaint and expect them to be disciplined (and maybe these aren't the best examples because while derogatory I certainly don't consider those words hate speech, but is there even an equivalent of "faggot" for women anymore?). If I heard that they had said that about me privately, even if within a group in the workplace, my feelings would be hurt, and depending on my relationship with them I might even confront them directly and ask them why they had said that, what exactly is the issue they have with me. But I would consider that their right to say. Again, don't crucify me for the example--if I could think of a stronger hate word for women I'd use it but I'm drawing a blank, and maybe that in itself is telling...perhaps I just haven't felt oppressed enough in this world to even comment on how I might feel, or how someone else should feel, or what should be done in this situation.

I think the argument that he's made the workplace uncomfortable is a strong one. If TR feels threatened and really uncomfortable, and if there are just too many bad feelings for there to be any harmony on the set, then he should be fired. But the context in which he said "faggot" the first time just doesn't really sound like hate speech to me. It was rude and he proved himself an ass, but was it really homophobic hate speech? I don't know, I wasn't there. Maybe if the cast thinks it was, and they were there, then so be it. But just reading it in print doesn't come across that way to me.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:08 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje


I disagree. In several college courses, we looked at case studies like these, more in a business setting (I was a business communications major). In every case, the employee was fired. One case in particular was a true story, someone who was the top sales rep for whatever sector of AT&T my prof used to work for said something derogatory about another co-worker and was fired immediately. Maybe this isn't common, but we were taught that this is definitely a firable offense because it is a liability to the company. It turns away customers and co-workers and no matter how dumb it might sound, you will lose business (or in this case fans/viewers) for allowing this type of behavior.
Sorry, I missed this post. This is interesting and maybe if I had seen this first, I'd have rethought my position (as I am now). I guess it doesn't have to be hate speech; it can just be derogatory to warrant being fired. So when that (now well-known) editor called me a "fucking liar" behind my back but within earshot, I should have had her fired. Maybe she wouldn't be editing horrible books today.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:33 PM   #66
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I don't think he should be fired, but that's terrible that he said that. I don't watch TV.
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:12 PM   #67
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Ok, after the original incident I thought he issued an apology about it and even discussed it on Oprah? Now, he's denying it and goes and uses the word again lol? His personal actions are an embarrassment to the show and network. He's a good actor, I really like his character on the show. But he’s not irreplaceable. It's really sad that he would go and say that, even more so that he did it a second time, I'd probably fire him based on that consideration.
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:24 PM   #68
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People say offensive things on set all the time. Racist jokes, sexist jokes, etc -- it comes with the territory of living and working in the land of chemically imbalanced artists that is Hollywood. It is rarely mean-spirited, and all sides are up for grabs. (In my writer's room there were September 11 jokes on September 12.) It's also part and parcel of productive creativity -- you have to be able to avoid censoring yourself in order to get to the heart of true creativity.

However, there is an unspoken rule that everything is kept in (relatively) good taste, and that if it becomes seriously uncomfortable for someone, that it gets shut down. When the comments became public, Isaiah should have had the good sense to apologize and clear it up. I don't think the act of speaking on Monday was homophobic, since he was only quoting himself; I do however think it was idiotic. To deny later that the event ever happened was an even greater mistake, and to only now apologize is an even greater mistake, and may come too late to stem the tide of public opinion.

His character hasn't been at the center of the storylines this season, so the show would certainly survive if he were let go.
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
People say offensive things on set all the time. Racist jokes, sexist jokes, etc -- it comes with the territory of living and working in the land of chemically imbalanced artists that is Hollywood. It is rarely mean-spirited, and all sides are up for grabs. (In my writer's room there were September 11 jokes on September 12.) It's also part and parcel of productive creativity -- you have to be able to avoid censoring yourself in order to get to the heart of true creativity.
Just because something happens all the time doesn't make it right. I don't think minorities, women and gays should have to put up with that crap just because they want to work in TV or the movies.
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:16 AM   #70
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If this type of incident happened in say an office setting, wouldn't in most cases he have been fired right away?
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Old 01-20-2007, 01:21 AM   #71
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I just think too much is being made from this. Its a word! Who knows what Isiah was thinking. Should he be fired for being derogatory? No. He should be talked to, perhaps even in mediation with the other cast member to talk about the issue, but lets not go overboard.

People need to brush things off. It's only what you feel that makes the word powerful, you need to suck it up and brush it off. This goes in all directions as well as people who say these shitty wordss (but im mightly sure if TR called Isiah a nigger we'd be having even more of an outrage)
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:29 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I wouldn't say it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate people still use this language. I would love to stop this language today, but make it illegal won't stop people from feeling that way.

You can't make the language illegal, for if you make this language illegal then someone may turn around and make your language illegal.
oh i complee agreetly! i should've expanded on that. that's what makes it so unfortunate. sppech itself can't be illegal...ever. not in this country. however, context, like i pointed out, can be dealt with accordingly.
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Old 01-20-2007, 03:03 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Because people HAVE consistently given those words the power to hurt. I don´t think I could care less about words being said to me. I never have. Just be confident and secure in yourself and words will never hurt your pride.
don't you use words to feel confident and secure in yourself?
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Old 01-20-2007, 03:10 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
African-Americans, gays, Jewish Americans, Muslim Americans (even Christians, of late) all vie with each other in the MOPE olympics, each group trying to show that it is really the most oppressed, the most set upon, the most victimised group ever - and usually demanding special rights to compensate for the alleged victimisation, whether real or imagined.
...or not?

i don't try to compete with other groups over who is oppressed more. i don't know people that do. all we're trying to do is live our lives, and do our best to eliminated prejudices of the past and present that prevent us from going where we want to go and doing what we want to do.

is that really all you think we do? just bitch and moan about the past and tell others we're worse off then they are??? and what special rights are you referring to?? equal rights and special rights are very different from one another.

however, i do want to point out that there are some groups that certainly deserve special rights over others. people with disabilities for example.
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Old 01-20-2007, 03:26 AM   #75
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i'm actually surprised by how many people here believe that words are meaningless. especially since this is a forum for fans of a music group. words obviously affect people, whether it is a derogatory comment meant to hurt or intimiade, or an inspirational lyric that puts our mind at ease.

words are powerful BECAUSE they trigger the responses. i can say "love" and have no idea how it will effect you. and it will effect you all in different ways. you may think of times when you felt loved, or you may think of times when you felt lack of love.

I can say "food" and you may think about your most favorite meal in the world, or the crap that you had to stomach at your friend's house the other day.

thats what makes words what they are. they are MEANT to trigger a response. that is how we communicate. that is how ideas are expressed. that is how poetry is written. if words were really that meaningless would we feel so obligated to respond to some posts in these threads? somebody says something we don't agree with, or really strikes a bad emotion, and we hop on the reply box to respond immediately, because these words triggered that.

and theres really no way for us to break emotional ties with only negative words. we all have different experiences in our past. some words will affect us in ways it may never affect others. we can't just detach ourselves! we can't ignore our emotions, whether they're good or bad.

even if someone says something hurtful to you, and your response is "don't listen to them, they are foolish. i'm awesome and confident and i know i rock!", guess what, that is still a response! it is a TRAINED response, but you wouldn't have to remind yourself of how awesome you are were it not for those negative words that pop up every now again. it is still responding.

k...i don't know if that really got my point across...but i tried...with words. lets see what these words trigger in you.
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