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Old 01-19-2007, 03:35 PM   #46
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Originally posted by financeguy
It is the attitudes behind the words not the words in and of themselves.
And in what context have words like faggot, nigger, etc been used to indicate positive attitudes?

You can't separate language from it's context. It goes against everything commonly taught regarding language and communication.
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:36 PM   #47
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Do you think, as a general principle, that a victimhood mentality is something to be encouraged, or discouraged?
Way to turn the tables.

I don't want anyone to take responsibility for their own hatreds so let's blame the victim for being such a wimp.

This is exactly what I'm hearing.

Yes it can go overboard, I'll be the first to admit that, but putting the blame on the recipient is ridiculous.
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:44 PM   #48
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Well good for you, and good for all your stereotypical assumptions too. I said what I "idealize" - so you continuing on with your assumptions and labels is rather moot, isn't it? Some "PC" things I am for, some I hate. But you are the master at evaluating and labeling others via a message board, I presume. Racism and homophobia and sexism are outside the realm of "PC", as far as I'm concerned. I believe in certain standards and follow them and voice them. If you don't well that's life, and I won't label you anything as a result- not until I actually know you from your actions and behavior. But use the word in your workplace to a coworker and see what happens-the n word, the f word-whatever. Luckily we still have some "PC" standards in this world.

I totally agree with what your saying here.

For everyone else;You know what?
It has nothing to do with "PC".

It has everything to do with respect for your brother/sister in life.
It has to do with thinking before you speak.
It has to do with realizing that what you think you shouldn't speak.
Has everything to do with realize the tongue can cut like a sword.
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:55 PM   #49
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Another fallacy. Completely ignoring what I said and bringing to light my previous posts.

You could´ve just addressed my post.
Um, no. The problem is you are looking at the word as a jumble of letters and you completely ignore everything else.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:02 PM   #50
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Um, no. The problem is you are looking at the word as a jumble of letters and you completely ignore everything else.
Still waiting for a proper retort.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:14 PM   #51
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Originally posted by financeguy
African-Americans, gays, Jewish Americans, Muslim Americans (even Christians, of late) all vie with each other in the MOPE olympics, each group trying to show that it is really the most oppressed, the most set upon, the most victimised group ever - and usually demanding special rights to compensate for the alleged victimisation, whether real or imagined.


i take the overall point, but, pray tell, what are "special rights"?
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:19 PM   #52
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Still waiting for a proper retort.
There's not much to retort.
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

That is a fallacy. Words have stopped wars and done all that you´ve mentioned because they´ve presented negotiations and alternatives to wars and reasonable solutions.

Not the case with a noun that´s just mean to offend (and do nothing else).
You're missing the big picture. Negotiations work due to the intentions behind them. Once again you are looking at the letters h, a, t, e and not the power of hate.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:29 PM   #53
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There are no bad words, there are no good words. Only bad intentions and good intentions.

Now, I would make two different catagories here: One is your every-day curse words(fuck, shit, goddamn, dick, etc), and the other is the more specifically deragotory stuff('faggot', 'nigger', etc)

I believe that there is nothing at all wrong with the first group of words, and that any healthy adult uses them at least on a semi-regular basis, and I believe that whether or not they are offensive is completely 100% dependent on the voice and intention fueling them - for example, if you're with your buddies and you say 'you're full of shit', if your voice is indicative of joking and fun and games, it's nothing, but if your voice is indicative of anger and/or hostility, it's something. Completely and utterly dependent on the voice and intention fueling them.

The second group is much trickier. I still believe it is largely dependent on the voice/intention, but I do believe you gotta be a whole lot more careful about who you say them to and in what context(if you're friends with a black person or a gay person, there could concievably be a mutual understanding whereby words like that could be exchanged jokingly)....and no, it's never ok to use words like that to somebody's face when you know that the person will be offended and/or hurt. However, in the original incident with Isiah Washington, he didn't say the word to the guy's face - he said it someone else. That's not classy, no, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as saying it to the guy's face.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


Still waiting for a proper retort.
Look at it this way:

If a girl you liked pretty much said to you: "I love you.", it would have an impact on you, wouldn't it?

Now, ok, you have a huge self-confidence as you said, but others are reacting not only to the four letters l-o-v-e, but they also react to words with the opposite meaning.

I don't know how it comes that some people are saying words are meaningless?
People invented language to communicate with each other, and thus every word got a meaning.
This meaning can be positive, and it can be negative.
And words can hurt people just as much as a slap in someone's face. Being it some letters or not, behind these letters there is a meaning. And this meaning is strong.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:04 PM   #55
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I can't get all worked up about this for some reason. The guy publicly apologized, admits he has some issues to look at, and welcomes the opportunity to meet with gay & lesbian community leaders to discuss it further. Seems like enough to me unless his apology proves to be insincere.

I don't like the show, the actor or the character he plays, though, not that that makes any difference except to say I'm not defending him out of some bias. I'm not defending him at all, really, it just seems like he fucked up and knows it. I think he deserves a warning and a second chance, but if it were to happen again, fire his ass. And I think most of you know I'm pretty hard core when it comes to gay rights and homophobic behavior.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:12 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


I understand that, but no matter how angry someone is at any given moment-how can calling a coworker a faggot ever be deemed acceptable?
When the show is a hot property.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:47 PM   #57
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I can't get all worked up about this for some reason. The guy publicly apologized, admits he has some issues to look at, and welcomes the opportunity to meet with gay & lesbian community leaders to discuss it further. Seems like enough to me unless his apology proves to be insincere.
Except that he initially apologized months ago (vaguely), then proceeded to lie and state that he never used that word and only after others on the cast called him on it, issued this apology. Therefore, I question his sincerity.

*Also, since he actually used the slur again, he's really gone beyond the second chance he was already given last fall.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:53 PM   #58
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Was it considered a slur the second time? Are we talking about his comment at the Golden Globes when he said, "I didn't call him a faggot"?

I guess if the reporter asked "Did you really call TR Knight a faggot" he could have responded "No, I did not" instead of saying the word again, but to me saying "I didn't call him a faggot" is a lot different than saying "You're a faggot."

I wouldn't say it, but I feel guilty whenever I say how much I like Patti Smith's song "Rock and Roll Nigger." I always stop and think if I should type it out or say it, and since it's the name of the song, I go ahead and type it out.
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Old 01-19-2007, 06:00 PM   #59
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Ok a little off this subject but still part of the racial discussion, what if your a soldier in war, how would that apply?? From "Krouts" and "Japs" in WW2 to gooks in "Vietnam"? To "Sand Niggers" in Iraq?

http://theync.com/m011907iraq.shtml

Are the rules different?

I was having a discussion with my friend who is african american and is going back to Iraq at the end of this month and he said many soldiers use those words (well the last one)?
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Old 01-19-2007, 06:06 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Justin24
Ok a little off this subject but still part of the racial discussion, what if your a soldier in war, how would that apply?? From "Krouts" and "Japs" in WW2 to gooks in "Vietnam"? To "Sand Niggers" in Iraq?

http://theync.com/m011907iraq.shtml

Are the rules different?

I was having a discussion with my friend who is african american and is going back to Iraq at the end of this month and he said many soldiers use those words (well the last one)?
Frankly in the heat of combat I could care less what troops are yelling as long as they keep their heads down. We humans are generally very violent, scared creatures when our lives are threatened so I can forgive some racial slurs from anyone in combat.

I believe 'Nips" was the popular slang word for Japanese pacific forces, coming from the word 'Nippon' meaning shrimp.
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