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Old 12-17-2004, 08:30 PM   #76
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I think your question has been answered fairly well.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

Is Christmas a holiday with Christian origins? Yes.
Not exactly, I think it's been pointed out to you that the holiday does have some pagen roots, why are you choosing to ignore this?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

Are atheists celebrating Christmas? Yes.
They are celebrating the commercial aspect of it. Do you think all retailers are Christian? Maybe they shouldn't profit from Christmas.


Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy

So what about Christmas, do you deny that or do you prefer to remain oblivious because it gives you 2+ weeks of holiday and is more convenient to you?
Athiests have kids and families too, it's a nice time for them to get together. Your post is beginning to sound a little judgemental.

Christmas has lost almost all spiritual meanings because we've let it get so freaking commercial. Why do you act like some kind of sacred Christian holiday. It isn't anymore, take a look around you, do you think Santa was born in a manger?
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:38 PM   #77
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A, have you always been an athiest? Did your parents raise you that way, or did you become disillusioned with religion? I'm just curious.
I have just never believed, never had to go to church, we did have religious education in primary school (and that was a state school, I wonder if that could work in the US) - I guess that the simplest answer is that I have never been religious but I have in my time been around enough religious folk to sort the bullshit from the truth and I can generally respect people of faith. I once made the mistake of getting a lift home with an evangelical type, 2 hour drive, that individual made some cutting remarks about the evils of secular culture - I kept my cards close to my chest that time.

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Old 12-17-2004, 08:42 PM   #78
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I wikipedia-ed Christmas and this is what came out:

Quote:
Christmas (literally, the Mass of Christ) is a traditional holiday in the Christian calendar which takes place on the twenty-fifth day of December and celebrates the birth of Jesus. According to the Christian gospels, Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem, where Mary and her husband Joseph had travelled to register in the Roman census. His birth was said by his followers to fulfill the prophecies of Judaism that a messiah would come, from the house of David. Christmas is also a secular holiday throughout much of the world, including countries with small Christian populations, such as Japan. The precise chronology of Jesus' birth and death as well as the historicity of Jesus are debated.

"Christmas" is often abbreviated to Xmas, possibly because the letter X resembles the Greek letter Χ (Chi), which is the first letter of Christ as spelled in Greek Χριστός [Christos].
I might as well keep shut. This thread is going nowhere. I've already agreed on a couple of things: yes, most people are unaware of the origins of Christmas. Regardless of it origin it is a great time to spend together.

What I am trying to make you see is that I would not blindly partake on something of another religion simply because everyone else is doing it.

And that is my final answer.

(I appreciate everyone who posted and disagreed ...because that's what FYM is for dammit. )
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Old 12-17-2004, 08:44 PM   #79
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Why not, I have celebrated numerous festivities of other religions and cultures and it can be good for you.
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Old 12-17-2004, 11:35 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I wikipedia-ed Christmas and this is what came out:



I might as well keep shut. This thread is going nowhere. I've already agreed on a couple of things: yes, most people are unaware of the origins of Christmas. Regardless of it origin it is a great time to spend together.

What I am trying to make you see is that I would not blindly partake on something of another religion simply because everyone else is doing it.

And that is my final answer.

(I appreciate everyone who posted and disagreed ...because that's what FYM is for dammit. )
I think most people are aware of what you call the origins of Christmas, but you don't seem to be aware of (or understand) just how pervasive the secular aspect of Christmas is. One may choose to celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas or one may choose not to celebrate the religious aspect of it. I choose the latter, and I don't do it blindly.

As I posted earlier, much of how Christmas is currently celebrated was pulled from the even earlier pagan solstice celebrations, so many Christians, in your words, "blindly partake on something of another religion" (or belief). So it is clearly not a celebration that is owned only by Christians.

The following was taken from a site designed to help teachers formulate lesson plans for students, so the information is pretty basic and simple, but it should do.


Quote:

THE SOLSTICE THROUGH THE CENTURIES

Historically, the winter solstice has had a rather checkered past. For hundreds of years, many people believed that the changing seasons and fluctuating hours of sunlight were controlled by a group of deities known as sun gods. The early pagans celebrated the Winter Solstice by honoring those gods with a variety of festivals and rituals designed to curry the gods' favor and ensure the sun's speedy return. In the Roman Empire, the Winter Solstice was further recognized by the celebration of the "Birthday of the Sun" on December 25th.

In the fourth century A.D., church leaders in Rome attempted to eliminate the pagan festivities by adopting December 25th as Christ's birthday. They hoped to replace the pagan customs with Christian traditions. The effort was never completely successful, however, and eventually many Winter Solstice customs were incorporated into Christmas observances.

By the tenth century, Christmas, with its colorful ceremonies and parades and entertaining performances, was the most celebrated holiday in Europe. In the 16th century, the festivities became so lively that Parliament passed a law abolishing Christmas altogether. Eventually the law was repealed, but today's winter solstice festivities are largely secular celebrations, held to brighten up the dark days of winter and remind celebrants of the spring to come.
winter celebrations
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Old 12-18-2004, 03:45 AM   #81
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So BrownEyed, do you think there is as much of a hypocrisy in the Christian folk who celebrate Christmas in the same way an athiest does? Not all people who follow religion necessarily go to church or mass on Christmas day, or infact treat the celebration any different to athiests.
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Old 12-18-2004, 04:31 AM   #82
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and Jesus was not even born on the 25th December so how can you, as the bible says, worship God with spirit and truth, if you are saying he was born on the 25th December which is not the truth so does smack of hypocrisy considering you probably have all the trapping of the pagan celebrations like christmas trees holly and ivy which have nothing to do with Jesus ect

You might want to note that the bibles account the shepherds were out minding their flocks in the field, which would have been unlikely on a freezing winter night of December and if you check your bible you will find the three wise men did not go to the stable but to a house, at a later period, why else would Herod order baby boys from 2 years and under to be put to death after they visited him if Jesus was only born?
But everyone to his own I guess

I say let the pagans and atheist have christmas

the peace and good will message in the bible would cover a much longer period of time than a few days anyway, I wish peace and good will to ALL people, family and friends ALL year around
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:42 AM   #83
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As my good friend Randall likes to say, Christmas is the no-man's-land in the ongoing class war. Yep, a cheery fellow is Randall.

He'd join you for a game of football in the mud if he had a leg to stand on.
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:56 PM   #84
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Ok, here's something for ya. One of my relatives was a member of the Church of Christ. As right-wing, holy Christian as you'd ever want to meet. His church doesn't celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ because they know it's got no basis as a fact. They know it's not a celebration of the actual birth of Christ, but an adaptation of a pagan holiday to commorate the occasion.

Smoke that.
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Old 12-19-2004, 12:43 AM   #85
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one church out of millions...
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:39 AM   #86
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so its truth in numbers?

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Old 12-19-2004, 02:02 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
one church out of millions...
(from: http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm)

Number of adherents of world religions:

Christianity 2,015 million (dropping)

Islam 1,215 million (growing)


BrownEyedBoy, if/when the worlds population of Islam overtakes Christanity, will you will change religion? They must be right if theres more of them, yes?
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:19 AM   #88
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In all fairness bel, I'm going to believe in God on the first of January as I will have won the 31 million dollar lotto draw. With these odds, you'd not be able to convince me God didn't exist after that.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:47 AM   #89
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Some thoughts:

Jesus was a Jew so what would Jesus think of people celebrating a pagan/Christian holiday?

What would Jesus think of people eating ham (nonkosher) to celebrate his birthday?

hmmm
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:34 AM   #90
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lol dont you find it funny that christians follow a man who is of another religion?
but no, christianity is still right!


sorry, i just dont get the splintering of the jewish faith and christianity. its like starting a seperate religion from buddhism but still worshipping buddha.

or maybe not, i dont know things.
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