Shocked by body image confessions

[dazzlingamy]

So last night I was out with a few good girlfriends. We had a few drinks and went dancing. I am the only 'taken' one in this group so most of the night was spent checking guys out. Anyway drama went down in the fact that two of my friends found one guy attractive and he was obviously into one of them and not the other which caused her to have a mini breakdown in the carpark.

We all ended up in a deep and meaningful right in the carpark and I was shocked at the revelations that came out. Here were 4 girls, of what would be called "normal" size who are all VERY pretty (and this is not just a friend being supportive, they are all very attractive) and all of them revealed how they hate themsevles, how they feel so fat and disgusting. They feel horrible about themselves, and when they go out they compare themselves to other women till they feel shit about themselves and then go home and cry.

Why does this happen? What is in this world that causes people to get so down on themselves, to the point where they want to die, and these are not even people who have clinical depression, or problems within their lives to get to this point?

Is it magazines? celebrities? Is it all women and i'm just not normal for feeling like this? Is it just women, or do men feel this way as well?
Is it just western women?

I just feel so sad, that such wonderful, sweet and gorgeous women can have such low selfesteem and feel so utterly despondant about themselves.

 

[U2democrat]

It's so hard not to compare when you're bombarded by "perfect" and "beautiful" women all the time...through TV, magazine covers, movies, etc. It's the society we live in, and it's sad.

I try not to compare myself to famous women but sometimes I just can't help thinking "Why can't I be pretty like her?" Even when I know that it's silly for me to even begin to compare myself to some celebrity.

It's a rough world...

 

[lmjhitman]

Here were 4 girls, of what would be called "normal" size who are all VERY pretty (and this is not just a friend being supportive, they are all very attractive) and all of them revealed how they hate themsevles, how they feel so fat and disgusting. They feel horrible about themselves, and when they go out they compare themselves to other women till they feel shit about themselves and then go home and cry.

well, you've pretty much described me to a T, there dazzlingamy.

i think it's a combination of society, media, and just men and women themselves, as well as a person's ability to drown all of that out, that contribute to the whole problem.

i think there are a lot of women who need their beauty to be validated somehow by others, whether it be by the media or by men specifically. if you never see yourself in the magazine pictures and when you go out and notice that men always seem to gravitate towards the tall, skinny blonde - is it any wonder that you begin to feel unattractive?

i'm not sure i can respond to your questions at the moment and still remain objective, so i'll have to come back to this.

 

[deep]

women tend to judge themselves by their appearance

men tend to judge themselves by their success


men tend to judge women by their appearance

women tend to judge men by their success


I know
these are generalities


men should strive to be more successful and have more self confidence

women should strive to make a nice appearance and have more self confidence

self confidence adds to a woman's attractiveness

self confidence adds to a man's success

 

[Liesje]

I don't know what to say about this because I see this type of thing all the time. Personally, I am unhappy with my body not because of how guys react, but because there was a time when I was doing sports and I liked how I looked and how I felt (energetic, sporty, etc) and after "entering the real world" (college, work, etc), I've gained weight and my physique has changed significantly. I wish I had my old body back, but more for myself than because I think I'm ugly and guys won't like me. I miss being thinner, way more toned, and having more energy than I do now.

I think the real issue here is how susceptible women are to the cultural ideal of a beautiful, thin women Why does it affect some women, but not others? That's what I'm most interested in. I don't think that the fact that this unachievable perception of "perfect women" exists is the problem because if people weren't willing to buy into it, it would go away.

 

[honeychild]

dazzlingamy, I am amazed by the number of attractive (and usually very thin) friends I have that make derogatory remarks about their own bodies. These women are all successful, both in careers and with men, and yet this does not seem to stop them from being so hard on themselves.

Just yesterday, when out for coffee and cake with some friends, one said, like it was no big deal, that if you pig out and feel you´ve eaten too much just throw up. We were quite shocked that she just came out with this, but she just shrugged her shoulders and said, "so what if its only like once a month". She is one of the strongest (I thought) women I know. REALLY tough job, very outspoken, in many ways an extreme feminist, and yet even she comes out with this stuff.

I´m not saying I don´t have afew issues with my body. I know my flaws, but I don´t put such signifance on them. It frustates me when I see otherwise wonderful women putting themselves down like this. For me whats worst about this phenomenon is that its not simply a case of succumbing to the ideal of being thin, its that they are never happy once they get there. So its like for some reason women have to put themselves down for something, rather than celebrating that they are pretty great.

And you know, sometimes I just get pissed of at the pure self-indulgence of it. What do you say when the thinnest girl in the room complains about being fat. What does that make the rest of us!?

 

[TheQuiet1]

Re: Re: Shocked by body image confessions

I think there are a lot of women who need their beauty to be validated somehow by others.

I think that's very, very (and sadly) true.

 

[verte76]

This is really sad. It's the media and society's expectations that make it so hard for some women to feel good about themselves. Kate Moss was recently chosen as the most influential celebrity in some poll, I forget who did it. It figures.

 

[Bono's shades]

I like to think of myself as someone who is secure enough not to freak out about body image, but if I have to hear my size 4 co-worker say one more time how "fat" she is I think I will smack her. If she's "fat," what does that make me at size 12?

 

[Liesje]

I like to think of myself as someone who is secure enough not to freak out about body image, but if I have to hear my size 4 co-worker say one more time how "fat" she is I think I will smack her. If she's "fat," what does that make me at size 12?

Hot!

 

[BluRmGrl]

Hot!

BEST. ANSWER. EVAH!!!!!

 

[trevster2k]

Well, I don't think self-esteem and confidence are always affected by the present. Sometimes a person's past or childhood can affect the way they perceive themselves. Also, it seems to me that some of the women with low-self esteem are the very ones all over the media, i.e. Paris Hilton, Lindsey Lohan, Britney Spears, etc.

Plus we all know about the airbrushing, makeup and soft-lighting, don't we?

 

[VertigoGal]

I think a lot of it has to do with the media. Of course they'll all say Nicole Richie's too thin, but in the next breath they're calling Mischa Barton "curvacious." I mean come on.

Lies I know what you mean...I've always been a competitive athlete, but I've sort of been in between sports lately and haven't been part of a yearround team since May. And even though I run 30-60 minutes a day and generally stay in shape, I'm not as toned and overall just not as happy with my appearance. Just having a sport to devote (far too many hours of) your life to is a really positive thing and makes the focus athleticism not emaciation. Of course there are exceptions to the other extreme, especially with ballet etc, but I've noticed that teenage girls that really have a sport they're devoted to tend to have better body images and freak out less about everything they put in their mouths.

Of course as I say that, me and my friends (who are all athletes- last year it was rowing) have always sat around watching TV, eating, and talking about how fat we are. It's a really common bonding thing, completely normal.

And guys aren't always helpful either...I have a friend that is 5'10 and 125-130 lbs, naturally lanky body type. But she does have- god forbid- like a tiny little pouch of fat in the stomach area, and guys in our group will jokingly poke at her and shit. I mean what the hell?

so this post has no point...society is to blame!!1 argh.

 

[redkat]

Well, I don't think self-esteem and confidence are always affected by the present. Sometimes a person's past or childhood can affect the way they perceive themselves.

that's very true. I think once you perceive yourself one way it's hard to let go of it. I doubt I know a single girl "happy" with the way she looks.

I like how Deep put it... a little confidence goes a long way in making a person attractive.

 

[Liesje]

Lies I know what you mean...I've always been a competitive athlete, but I've sort of been in between sports lately and haven't been part of a yearround team since May. And even though I run 30-60 minutes a day and generally stay in shape, I'm not as toned and overall just not as happy with my appearance. Just having a sport to devote (far too many hours of) your life to is a really positive thing and makes the focus athleticism not emaciation. Of course there are exceptions to the other extreme, especially with ballet etc, but I've noticed that teenage girls that really have a sport they're devoted to tend to have better body images and freak out less about everything they put in their mouths.

I did competitive gymnastics, which most people associate with eating disorders, but in our competitive division, the best girl was VERY athletically built. She was in no way thin, but she was so amazingly strong and had the most diverse set of skills and always won. Coming in as an insecure 13 year old using the team almost as more of a social opportunity at first, I think it was good I had someone like her to look up to. Also, being in sports bras and leotards everyday, in a gym with mirrored walls actually helped me become more comfortable with my body rather than hate it.

4 years later, I've put on 30 pounds, lost a lot of muscle tone, while only having grown half an inch. I don't think I'm fat or ugly, I just miss my athletic self. Often, it's more about just feeling more nimble and energetic than caring how I look on the outside. I'm not going to sweat it though since I just don't have the time to be doing gymnastics for three hours a day and on weekends.

One thing that came to mind with this thread was how do you approach the issue of weight with a young woman when you really do have reason to be concerned? One of my best friends has gained a LOT of weight in the last four years. Not only that, but she never exercises (not even things like going for a short walk - she wants to lay in bed all day), has a terrible diet, very bad sleeping habbits, and has always struggled with depression and anxiety. She seemed in denial about her weight gain - she'd wear the same clothes we wore when we were 12 and look really inappropriate. We finally did our own "What Not To Wear" and helped her find profesisonal clothes that look really nice on her, but she still gets lazier and eats more fast food. I never know what to say, because her extended family has problems with obesity, high cholesterol, etc. I don't want to hurt her feelings, but I want her to know I'm serious. I've tried encouraging her so many ways. Once she wanted to try the Shape Challenge, so her bf bought us our own elliptical machine. I did it religiously for weeks, only to find out she tried it once and decided she hated getting sweaty. I just don't know what else to say because I'm concerned for her physical health, but she has low self-esteem (she was in an abusive relationship) and problems with anxiety, so I don't want to set her off....

 

[lmjhitman]

Plus we all know about the airbrushing, makeup and soft-lighting, don't we?

you don't know how fabulous it is to hear a guy say that.

 

[dazzlingamy]

I mean, i understand people looking at their flaws,or not being completely happy with their body, as even im not all happy happy about it but these girls...are not just a bit 'i wish' but have this complete hatred for themselves. THIS is what i don't understand!

These girls are college educated, they all have full time jobs, are smart and funny, we have such a fun time together, and yet one guy not making eye contact can cause everything to fall to shit. IT just makes me sad, and FRUSTRATED that these women are so fragile when it comes to their own self esteem, and that this is a common thing, not just a girl here and there.

I don't ever look at celebs and wish that was me. We are exactly the same, skin and bones and blood and all that.

What i dont understand is why is someone who is seem to be "beautiful" seen to have to all, while everyone else is in for a shit time?

Why do girls need male validation for themselves to feel good about each other? I can talk till im blue in the face and nothing i say matters a jot to some guy trying to pick my friend up. THAT is shit as well. :/

 

[lmjhitman]

These girls are college educated, they all have full time jobs, are smart and funny, we have such a fun time together, and yet one guy not making eye contact can cause everything to fall to shit. IT just makes me sad, and FRUSTRATED that these women are so fragile when it comes to their own self esteem, and that this is a common thing, not just a girl here and there.

once again, you're describing me:

university-educated - check
smart - check
funny - check
full-time job - check
great personality - check

hmmm, so why aren't guys checking me out or coming up to talk to me? on paper, i'm pretty fantastic. the only thing i can chalk it up to is my appearance. i'm a brown-complexioned, dark-haired, short, curvy girl. you won't see anyone who looks like me on tv or on music videos or in magazines. there is a so-called 'ideal' of beauty out there. and unfortunately, some of us have bought into it more than others. the thing is, whenever something happens that reinforces the fact that i don't fit into that ideal, it's frustrating, if not devastating. especially considering the above-mentioned qualities which i have in spades. i just figure that maybe i'm just not pretty enough for anyone to want to approach me and find that out.

yes, that's negative self-talk and yes, that's low self-esteem. but how do you talk yourself out of that? i could stand in front of a mirror saying, 'you're beautiful. you're beautiful. you're beautiful...' until i'm blue in the face. but isn't 'beauty in the eye of the beholder'? isn't beauty a subjective thing? can anyone really walk around thinking that they're beautiful even if no one else does? isn't that where the external validation factors in?

i don't really know. you're right. it's shitty.

and this is a really sensitive topic for me.

 

[yolland]

I agree with what trevster said--what's inside you already, and what you've been raised to see as important, has a lot to do with how received ideals of beauty and success affect you. I think people who are truly undaunted by these ideals are rare, but obviously some people are way more susceptible to becoming unhealthily preoccupied with their "failures" to measure up than others. Unfortunately, all the platitudes in the world about "inner" beauty or "true" success won't do much good if a person doesn't have a strong sense of what else in life is worth aspiring to and focusing on. One of the downsides of living in a culture where people choose their own partners (to put it optimistically--"choice" being a two-way street) is that you tend to wind up fixating a lot on whether you possess the "right" qualities to "deserve" being attractive and interesting to others. Which is both misguided and sad, because the so-called "right" qualities are never the ones people truly love you for; they might win you more casual admiration (and unfortunately, our culture valorizes that too), but all that really gives you is one more reason to keep anxiously looking over your shoulder at the competition's progress, not the lasting sense of self-affirmation you want. There's nothing sinister about wanting to look good and be successful, it's normal and healthy to value these things, but they aren't the measure of what you're worth and if you let them become that, you'll never be satisfied and you'll wind up loathing yourself for what you're not rather than valuing yourself for what you are. Which at its worst will leave you so self-preoccupied that you'll alienate people and repeatedly pass up opportunities to receive precisely what you're craving, which effectively transforms your self-disrespect into disrespect for others. In my opinion both men and women do this frequently, although the ways it plays out socially are different.

When I'm with a group of people and someone starts getting into the oh-I'm-such-a-pathetic-loser-because-[fill-in-the-blank] kind of talk, usually I try gently changing the subject to something more positive and outward-looking, rather than encouraging them by enumerating all the reasons why they're not, which never seems to do much good anyway. I have no idea if this really helps, but I don't see the point in enabling self-defeating behavior. It's hard to be single and unhappy with that, though; I remember well what that was like and all the self-doubt it invites. All I know is that it absolutely doesn't help to blame yourself and your "inadequacies"; that won't get you anywhere with anyone, least of all yourself. It's a hard habit to break, and to the extent that a good relationship "cures" it, it's because it makes you realize how irrelevant your proximity to some ideal is to anyone who really loves you. And even then, it won't happen if you're not ready to believe that. I hesitate to put it this way because I don't mean to suggest that romantic "success" is ultimately what validates you, quite the opposite really, self-validation has to come first, but again, when romantic success gets wrongly framed as the benchmark, it's hard to respond without relating it back to that. It's so much healthier to be single and self-confident than attached and self-loathing.

 

[Greenlight]

Speaking as a bit of an oldie here, (I'm 44), I think the passing of years does make some difference to womens' perceptions about themselves.
I well remember my friends and I having similar periods of self -doubt and lack of confidence about our looks when we were students and in our 20s but over time I think these feelings lessen to some degree, perhaps due to complacency, and generally we're not so worried about our appearance, even though most of us have now got a few extra pounds and wrinkles. The single friends I've got who are hoping for a new relationship tend to take the view that if a man doesn't like them just based on their looks then that's tough and they're the losers. Perhaps it's because there are few attractive middle aged females who feature heavily in the media and we've got to the stage where we think well we're never going to look like the young skinny models so it's a totally lost cause! It also helps I think that you're more likely to meet men through social connections,work etc as you get older rather than in bars/clubs so there's less emphasis on first looks.
That said I do think though that most women will always worry about their appearance to some degree and noone I know is completely happy with their body - the growth of the cosmetic surgery industry is testamount to womens' insecurities about their bodies.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think women are taught by many sources in many instances to feel badly about themselves and to not give themselves proper credit- by their parents, by men, by the media. It's definitely a gender specific phenomenon, how many men are taught that in general? Aren't men in many cases taught to think even more of themselves than is actually realistic or warranted? Women are often taught from an early age that male validation is necessary, what about all the old fairy tales? I think your father is very critical in all of it, I know that is where many of my issues come from.

I've tried over and over to talk myself out of it when certain situations happen in my life. You can get to the point when you're older that it is easier, but it still hurts when any situation happens that makes you feel badly about yourself. As much as you can tell yourself (and you really intellectually know) that it is the other person's problem, or that the media is f'ed up, it still hurts and can be so painful to come to terms with.

If a guy will only want to get to know you because of looks, how much worth does he have anyway? So much time is wasted worrying about all of that, we can and should use that wasted time to do positive things for ourselves and for each other.

 

[redhotswami]

Interestingly enough, I just hosted a conference where we talked about this and how negative body image is on the rise amongst our students and why so many men and women are resorting to eating disorders.

Honestly, it is the media that has been defining what beauty is, and has been setting the bar for expectation. The media picks a type out, and various celebs follow for the attention, and then the rest of us are left to think we need to follow that as well. Interestingly enough, the idea of what is beautiful also changes with the times. What was considered beautiful today was completely different 40 years ago.

Anyway, there was this study done among heterosexual college students. The women were asked where they thought they fell on the body size spectrum and where their ideal was. AND they were asked where they thought men were. The men were also asked the same questions.

The results showed that women thought they were too fat, and their ideal was really thin. However they thought the men were perfect.

And the men were the same! They thought they were too fat, and their ideal waas to be thinner. And they thought the women were perfect!!!

I just found this ironic because it appears that both sexes in this study wanted to be thinner to appeal to the opposite sex...however they both thought the opposite sex was perfect in their body types as they were.

They wanted to change themselves (and would sometimes resort to some harmful behavior) to appease someone who already thinks they are perfect.

I just thought it was interesting.

 

[verte76]

Yes, it's a problem that's peculiar to women. Men don't have this problem. It doesn't seem fair.

 

[yolland]

I think it's less that men in general have unrealistically high opinions of themselves, and more that men in general are expected to act confident and project self-assurance even when that's not at all how they're feeling--to show insecurity is a sign of weakness. But as deep pointed out, preoccupation with one's physical "shortcomings" specifically is more common among women.

 

[Bono'sTyee]

Actually men do have a problem with it also (I just did a study about eating disorders for school) but it's a much smaller percentage, and instead of making themselves sick they work out for hours on end to get the perfect body. As a long distance runner in cross country and track, I know there's a lot of pressure to be really fit because you need to have the endurance in you to run the extra mile or do a better finishing kick. It's really discouraging for me to look at my friends who are like size five and hear them say they're fat. I'm a size 9/10, but I'm tall and got outrageously cool leg muscles from years of conditioning. It doesn't bother me anymore. I mean, I wouldn't want to wear a size five because the jeans would be like capri's on me!

 

[VertigoGal]

and there's always the emaciated emo kids wearing girl pants. do they starve themselves? or are errmm scrawny boys drawn to the emo look in the first place? I've always wondered that.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

and there's always the emaciated emo kids wearing girl pants. do they starve themselves? or are errmm scrawny boys drawn to the emo look in the first place? I've always wondered that.

Or, umm, how 'the boys' handle it...

 

[diamond]

women tend to judge themselves by their appearance


self confidence adds to a woman's attractiveness

self confidence adds to a man's success

doesn't success add to a women's self confidence thereby making her more self confident and making her more attractive the same way a man is considered attractive in today's society?

I would hope so, being the father of 2 girls, I would want them to have self confidence in being successful in whatever their professional or athletics pursuits may be.

dbs

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I have to wonder why some people seem to think that everything is ultimately all about how a woman looks-so in other words a guy can be a mess but if he's "successful" he's attractive to women? But a woman's success (and intellect) means nothing if she's not physically attractive/beautiful? And some people have way too much confidence, baby. That's very unattractive to many people.

This is interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00nhKwv4M5Q

 

[Irvine511]

I have to wonder why some people seem to think that everything is ultimately all about how a woman looks-so in other words a guy can be a mess but if he's "successful" he's attractive to women? But a woman's success (and intellect) means nothing if she's not physically attractive/beautiful? And some people have way too much confidence, baby. That's very unattractive to many people.

doesn't the opposite hold true, too? men can be hot, but if they're dumb/unsuccessful, how attractive are they to women?