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Old 07-15-2002, 07:47 PM   #1
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Setting biblical misconceptions straight

First of all...
adam and eve
they were not the only people on earth. If you read Genesis.

Cain said to the Lord , "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

I think that implies there are many more outside don't you think??

Theres another verse which is even more clear.
Adam and even were simply the first created.

I also hear ravenstar say that all are created in the image of man.
Thats "man" in the general "mankind" sense.

-----------
Actually, I would like to hear how people figure the post flood earth was repopulated.
That I can't figure out
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Old 07-15-2002, 08:44 PM   #2
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simple: there was no flood. Or atleast in the biblical sense. Ever heard of the Black Sea Flood? The Black sea was the result of a fast flood. You can tell this by looking at the floor of the sea. You can see a coastline, places where rivers would have been, beaches, etc. Since back then there was next to no worldly connections the people would have thought the whole world had flooded.
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Old 07-15-2002, 08:59 PM   #3
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Bass-
From what I read Noah had Ham and a woman named Egyptus-sp?
on The Ark w him along w/some other adults- and all the animals of course, inc ZEdge..

Scientists universally agree that a A GREAT FLOOD occured parreling the Bibles chronologly.

DB9
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:10 PM   #4
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Considering the fact that the people on the ark included four married couples (Noah and wife, Shem and wife, Ham and wife, Japheth and wife) I don't know why the idea of them having children and repopulating the earth is all that hard to believe.
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:29 PM   #5
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Considering the fact that the people on the ark included four married couples (Noah and wife, Shem and wife, Ham and wife, Japheth and wife) I don't know why the idea of them having children and repopulating the earth is all that hard to believe.
well...all the kids would be close cousins but I guess that actually didn't matter so much back then!
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:47 PM   #6
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Christ was also most likely NOT crucified on a cross...rather a straight staff.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:00 AM   #7
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Originally posted by Se7en
Christ was also most likely NOT crucified on a cross...rather a straight staff.
If you don't me asking, but could you provide more details?

I've heard many various theories about Roman crucifixion, but I am generally wary of those that dispute certain details in the New Testament. Specifically, the Gospels make clear that Jesus' hands and feet were pierced with nails, and His side was pierced with a Roman spear - and an inspection of these wounds is what convinced (doubting) Thomas that Jesus had risen from the dead.

If the theory does not dispute important details such as these, I have no problem considering it as a definite possibility.
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Basstrap


well...all the kids would be close cousins but I guess that actually didn't matter so much back then!
Inbreed ? Having kids with the kid of a uncle who is a kid from his sister and his father, i think there is not enough genetic diversity to get healty kids after two ore three generations. And where did the different colors came from ?
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Old 07-16-2002, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
Christ was also most likely NOT crucified on a cross...rather a straight staff.
I once heard somebody explain the exact cause of Jesus' probable death. Yes, he apparently died at the cross, but because of what?
- Piercing hands and feet, although extremely painful, is not enough for a person to die.
- The Roman spear did apparently not cause a fatal wound.

The most likely cause of death would be asphyxiation (yes, I had to go to the Meriam-Webster's dictionary to look up the exact spelling ) caused by exhaustion. When nailed to the cross the less painful position is to lean down a bit so that less weight is put on the (pierced) feet. However, the body is then in such a position that it does not received enough oxygen (the arms are raised a bit too high), so after a while the person has to rise a little bit to get enough oxygen. As this is very painful, one can only do it for a short while before leaning down again. In the end one is exhausted so much that he cannot rise again and dies because of a lack of oxygen. It's not a happy story, but crucifixion was indeed very cruel.

BTW, a crucified person was not only nailed to the cross, his arms were also tied to the cross. The Romans already knew that nails only could not hold a person (it will tear up flesh when faced with a weight of more than 25 kg). It was thus only added for extra cruelty.

Marty

P.S. I said probable death of Jesus as there are stories he didn't die at the cross, but was merely unconscious (and heavily wounded) and he got away to India.
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Old 07-16-2002, 03:31 AM   #10
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Isn't there a school of thought that Jesus was nailed to the cross thru his wrists rather than his hands?
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Old 07-16-2002, 04:13 AM   #11
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Were people back then aware of the implications of indreeding? And do you think that people had the kind of general idea that breeding with family members might be wrong genetically speaking? I've always wondered about this. Also whether 8 people (from Sula's comment re: 4 couples) are enough to avoid this. I am too lazy to work this out.
A potential misconception I have wondered about is the said other 2 men who were put on crosses either side of him. Is this true? And was one really a thief and one a murderer? How common a practice was placing men on a cross to either asphyxiate or starve to death?
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Old 07-16-2002, 08:13 AM   #12
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I've recently read Lee Strobel's The Case for Christ, a book that scrutinizes the evidence for Jesus Christ's life, death and ressurection. The author interviewed Alexander Metherell, M.D., Ph.D., to get answers about many of the questions and theories about the cross, including those mentioned here. In brief:

Metherell believes that Jesus was killed on a t-shape cross - nailed to a horizontal beam (called a patibulum) which was then attached to a vertical beam that was set permanently into the ground.

He also believes that Jesus was nailed through the wrists, which would be enough to support the weight; in the language of that time and place, however, the wrist was considered part of the hand.

The pain would have been terrible, to the degree that the Romans had to invent a new word to describe it - "excruciating," but Metherell agrees that death would have been caused by asphyxiation.

If that weren't enough (and it certainly was), the piercing through His side probably punctured a lung and the heart. That would have caused the issuing of the pericardial effusion and pleural effusion, thereby explaining the "blood AND water (emphasis mine)" mentioned in John 19:34.

Finally, the book addressed the so-called "swoon theory," that Christ did not actually die on the cross. It has been an apparently pernicious theory, appearing as early as in the Koran (written in the seventh century) and as recently as a book published in 1992.

Metherell rejects the theory as ridiculous. Jesus would not have long survived the hypovolemic shock from losing so much blood during the flogging beforehand. He could not have faked His death on the cross itself, because "you can't fake the inability to breathe for long." He could not have survived a spear piercing a lung and his heart. And He certainly could not have survived the combination of the three.

The Roman soldiers, who were experts in killing people and liable for death themselves if a condemned man survived, would not have allowed Him to escape alive.

The theory that suggests otherwise is "impossible," "a fanciful theory without any possible basis in fact."

Jesus died that day. Period. The only real question is whether the story ends there.
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Old 07-16-2002, 08:38 AM   #13
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I think the flood problem needs more analysis here...
how did this work?

I think I can explain the color thing as adaption to enviroment...I actually think thats how micro-evolution would explain it as well.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:03 PM   #14
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A normal crucifixion usually takes 2-3 weeks. But his only took 2-3 days. Maybe he didn't die but instead passed out therefore making it look like he came back to life.

We did an assignment in science this year that had to do with breeding. we had circles, squares, triangles, and diamonds. Then we were told that we could not breed two of the same shape together because of inbreeding.

Circle-Square Circle-Triangle Circle-Diamond

Square-triangle Square-Diamond

Triangle-Diamond

We were then told that all squares hadnt evolved properly and had all died off. So now we are left with:

Circle-Triangle Circle-Diamond Triangle-Diamond

Now these three combined shapes had to breed. Keep in mind a shape cant breed with its own kind.
None of these shapes can breed. Double it so there are two of each shape to begin with, to go along with Sula's theory, the shapes could not survive. Even if Square had of made it, 4 couples could not continue a species.
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Old 07-16-2002, 12:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
A potential misconception I have wondered about is the said other 2 men who were put on crosses either side of him. Is this true? And was one really a thief and one a murderer? How common a practice was placing men on a cross to either asphyxiate or starve to death?
1. The bible mentions two other people who were crucified at the same time as Jesus, and they are both described as criminals or thieves. I don't think either is ever refered to as a murderer. (See Matthew chapter 27 and Luke chapter 23)

2. It appears that crucifixion was a fairly common form of execution used by the Greeks and Romans. From Gerard Sloyan's "The Crucifixion of Jesus: History, Myth, Faith ":
Quote:
Seneca (d. 65 C.E.) refers to a variety of postures and different kinds of tortures on crosses: some victims are thrust head downward, others have a stake impale their genitals (obscena), still others have their arms outstretched on a crossbeam. The Jewish historian Josephus, writing of the Jewish War of the late 60s, is explicit about Jews captured by the Romans who were first flogged, tortured before they died, and then crucified before the city wall. The pity he reports that Titus, father of Josephus's imperial patron Vespasian, felt for them did not keep Titus from letting his troops dispatch as many as five hundred in a day: "The soldiers, out of the rage and hatred they bore the prisoners, nailed those they caught, in different postures, to the crosses for the sport of it, and their number was so great that there was not enough room for the crosses and not enough crosses for the bodies." Josephus calls it "the most wretched of deaths." He tells of the surrender of the fortress Machaerus on the east shore of the Dead Sea when the Romans threatened a Jewish prisoner with crucifixion.
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