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Old 12-21-2002, 11:19 PM   #1
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Senator Speaks Mind on Osama

Remarks made by this senator seem to imply that the United States has brought 9/11 upon itself.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...bmurray20.html

The fine Senator gets called on her statements here:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...murray20.shtml

Of course we have the statement to clarify issued by the Senator herself here.

http://murray.senate.gov/~murray/rel...002C20843.html

I really hope we see the press and Senate pick up on this story. It is horrible to think that a public figure, such as a senator, would lead students to believe that Osama Bin Laden is justified in doing what he did because we have brought it on ourselves.
The Senate should pass judgement on her immediately. Impeach her, because she said things that are offensive.

Brought it on ourselves. Man this really irks me......


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Old 12-21-2002, 11:51 PM   #2
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I read all 3 of those that you posted and I see nowhere did she say we brought it on ourselves. You put those words into her mouth.
She was asking students to think outside of what the media tells us to think, and I see nothing wrong with that.

*shrugs
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Old 12-21-2002, 11:54 PM   #3
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Ummm...I did not put the words in her mouth.
I said her statements seem to imply......opening line.....


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Old 12-21-2002, 11:57 PM   #4
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Sorry I was reffering to this part:
Quote:
Brought it on ourselves. Man this really irks me......
Seemed to me you were more than implying, but my appologies
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Old 12-21-2002, 11:58 PM   #5
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None necessary.......

It's all good.


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Old 12-22-2002, 12:03 AM   #6
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"An expert on terrorism, who co-wrote a book profiling bin Laden and al-Qaida, said Murray’s comments, published yesterday in The Columbian newspaper, were mostly on the mark."
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:06 AM   #7
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I would actually pose the question to my students if I were teaching High School or College. I would not bring this up in a 4th grade classroom.

I agree it is time to look at the why 9/11 occurred. Deep down, I think the Senator raises some good points.

Just dangerous to read too much into comments....yes?

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Old 12-22-2002, 12:23 AM   #8
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Depends on how you read the article. I didn't come away from this news item feeling like the Senator issued some sort of indictment against the U.S. She was getting at the root of the problem. I suspect most terrorists feel like their people have been dehumanized and had their dignity taken away from them. So there's nothing left to live for. That's said, I'm not excusing terrorist behavior, just trying to understand the root problem, much like the Senator.
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Old 12-22-2002, 01:14 AM   #9
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Tends to be getting some traction on weblogs, here's an interesting response.


In response to Senator Pat Murray’s recent comments claiming the US has, unlike Osama bin Laden, failed to provide aid to woo the sundry peoples of the world, I would like to note a few points. Until last October I worked for the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva. My job was fundraising. I wrote funding requests and financial reports for one donor: the European Union. My division was one of six that secured funding for ICRC activities. Each year our divisions tallied the total amount of donations coming from the various nations and organizations. We then produced a bar graph that listed the largest donors beginning with the most generous. And each year, first place in donations went to one nation: the United States. Indeed, in terms of the bar graph, American contributions towered above all others. Before working for the ICRC, I also worked for the United Nations. The case there was similar to the Red Cross. The US alone stood out ahead of all other donors.

Of course, Murray is correct to note that Osama bin Laden has used his vast family fortune (one he did absolutely nothing to earn) to win converts to his cause. By comparison, the money provided by the American government comes from taxpayers of various degrees of wealth, from American billionaires to the guy selling hot dogs on the street.

And Murray is also correct to point out that America did drop bombs on Afghanistan. But perhaps in her smug wisdom she might go further and ask another question. What were the results of bin Laden’s stewardship in comparison to those American bombs? Again I can refer to my work at the Red Cross. During my time with the ICRC I wrote funding requests and reports on Afghanistan both prior to September 11 and after. Prior to September 11, Afghanistan had experienced periods of sustained drought especially in Ghor province and Herat. This situation was complicated by an interminable civil war. After September 11 and the eventual attack on Afghanistan, I had the opportunity to talk with people who worked directly in Afghanistan. All told me about the incredible change in Afghanistan. Almost overnight, the country went from a land living in fear of the Taliban and al Qaeda operatives to one where children were playing in the streets, often kicking around soccer balls given them by American, British or French soldiers. And what about the activities of the Red Cross? Well, as my source in the field told me, the Red Cross now had access to areas previously prohibited by the Taliban. The humanitarian activities of the Red Cross were ultimately aided by those American bombs.

By saying this, I don’t mean to speak for the International Committee of the Red Cross, nor do I mean to suggest that the US has never engaged in activities that ultimately harmed its reputation in various parts of the world. All I would suggest is that Senator Murray may wish to reflect a bit more the next time she makes an attempt at being provocative. To suggest that the US does not provide a substantial amount of aid to the developing world is blatantly foolish. To compound this foolishness by failing to take account of the difference between the motives and results of funding coming from Osama bin Laden and the United States is perverse.

Incidentally, my source in the field quipped, half jokingly half seriously, “I wish the US would invade a few more countries, it would make our job a hell of a lot easier.” He wasn’t an American by the way.

posted by Collin May at 12/20/2002 05:14:58 PM
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Old 12-22-2002, 01:37 AM   #10
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Great post us3!
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Old 12-22-2002, 05:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkysgrrrl
She was asking students to think outside of what the media tells us to think
blasphemy

Quote:
Originally posted by us3
In response to Senator Pat Murray’s recent comments claiming the US has, unlike Osama bin Laden, failed to provide aid to woo the sundry peoples of the world
that is a very ignorant comment
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Old 12-22-2002, 08:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome


that is a very ignorant comment
Salome-
plez elaborate.

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Old 12-22-2002, 11:16 PM   #13
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I just saw Gangs, and Tameny Hall comes to mind. People who are corrupt and want ultimate power know how to win favor.

But I think if the US tried that, we would be accused of trying to buy them off...that goes back to my point in the other thread about our label as "infidels."

The point the senator is making is the same one Bono is making in trying to convince Americans to give more aid to Africa...we need to be seen as compassionate.

While I agree that we need to contribute much more to end famines and epidemics and care for orphans, simply dumping a lot of money doesn't necessarily make conditions better. They have tried that with inner city schools, and the results aren't stellar.

Bin Laden *knows* the communities he is helping, and can go right in and provide what they ask for. He gets points because he is helping people we have displaced.

We need to understand the world better so that we won't adopt policies that hurt people...for instance allowing Nestle to convince third world mothers to use formula for their babies. Speaking out against that and not tolerating such exploitation would show our sensitivity, and maybe help to build bridges. However,

As I said in the other thread, muslims feel justified fighting against the US if they think we are persecuting them. Bin Laden is reacting to rampant capitalism, and no matter how much good we do he is always going to dislike that materialism.

It is entirely his idea to strike out violently against a system he doesn't like.
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Old 01-09-2003, 08:22 PM   #14
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Sen. Murray Defends Bin Laden Comments







Thursday, January 09, 2003

WASHINGTON — Sen. Patty Murray on Wednesday defended comments she made last month that seemed to praise terror leader Usama bin Laden for his humanitarian efforts.





The Democratic senator from Washington said she’s no big fan of the terrorist leader and that the media has misconstrued remarks she made to a group of advanced placement students in her home state on Dec. 18.

"I have to tell you that it's really important that people don't twist or construe remarks that were made to an AP student group in a Vancouver high school," she told Fox News in a Senate corridor after attending a "power coffee" with the 13 other women senators on Capitol Hill.

"We all know -- everyone in this country knows -- that Usama bin Laden is an evil terrorist and in my remarks I told the students we're taking the right steps now. The question is what do we do next ... and it's an important question," Murray said.

In the meeting with students, Murray asked why bin Laden is so popular in some places around the world. Her answer was caught on tape by the school’s video department.

"He's been out in these countries for decades building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities and people are extremely grateful," she said. "He's made their lives better. We have not done that."

Outcry against Murray's comments was immediate, even among some who think the United States should give more foreign aid to Afghanistan.

"She should know better than that -- [bin Laden] is public enemy No. 1 and is behind despicable things. To use him for effect is outrageous," said Josh Feit, editor of The Stranger, Seattle's alternative weekly paper.

Several experts said it’s true bin Laden has spent some of his money in the Sudan and Afghanistan on infrastructure projects such as building hospitals, schools and roads.

But they say most of those roads were built to take soldiers to and from training camps, the schools built were madrasas, which often indoctrinate students to the bin Laden brand of Islam, and the hospitals were not intended for average Muslims but for injured Mujahadeen fighters battling the Soviets.

Diplomats, biographers and aid workers all say bin Laden’s popularity does not stem from his benevolence, but from his message of hate towards Israel and the United States.

"I think he developed a following because he became the embodiment of someone who would represent the powerless and confront the powerful," said Fox News contributor Dennis Ross, a former ambassador and director of The Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

In fact, the United States is the largest international donor of aid to several countries where bin Laden is popular, and was so even before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Recently, the United States gave $320 million in aid to Afghanistan, mostly in the form of food and refugee assistance, thus providing 80 percent of the international relief given to that country.

Some have also criticized the disproportionate response to Murray’s comments compared to the drubbing given to former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Miss., who resigned from his leadership post after a huge public outcry over remarks he made regarding segregationist policies of the past.

But there are others in Murray’s corner, including several in Seattle’s anti-war coalition who believe she is right.

"I would believe that as a fundamentalist, he believes very much in the values of his religion and that he would have been providing charity," said Alice Woldt of the Church Council of Seattle.

Murray’s defenders have said her remarks were made off the cuff, but the tape showed the senator using those words as her closing statements, which may have left a lasting impression.

The GOP is now seizing the moment. Republicans, and even President Bush, are said to be trying to draft Rep. Jennifer Dunn to run against Murray in the 2004 election.
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Old 01-10-2003, 04:34 PM   #15
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Bin Laden Unveils Plans for Patty Murray Hospital
(2003-01-09) -- Usama Bin Laden announced plans today to build a new hospital in Seattle named after Sen. Patty Murray, D-WA.

The popular Islamic philanthropist said Patty Murray General Hospital would serve the poor and children for free.

Sen. Murray, in a speech to high school students recently, attributed Mr. Bin Laden's popularity to his humanitarian work in building hospitals, schools and roads in impoverished communities in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

"Of course the Senator is honored," said a spokesman. "She'll be at the ribbon cutting. She hopes to meet Mr. Bin Laden, who is the Mother Theresa of our generation."

A spokesman for Mr. Bin Laden said he wants no publicity.

"This is just who he is," said the spokesman. "Allah has blessed him, and he wishes to be a blessing to others. Sen. Murray impressed him with her vast knowledge, and sensitivity."

Mr. Bin Laden also plans to pay tribute to Sen. Murray by building a new airport in her honor in eastern Virginia.
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