Senator Rangel looks to reinstate draft - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-19-2006, 07:44 PM   #16
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Is this guy a Democrat???
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Old 11-19-2006, 07:51 PM   #17
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Is this guy a Democrat???
Yeah. I think this is a ploy. It is his way of getting others to see that this war is unwinnable. He knows a draft will never pass.

Ironically, he is probably right.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:01 PM   #18
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Originally posted by namkcuR
The draft is bullshit and that's all there is to it.

You DO NOT force someone to risk their life against their will. If you do, you might as well put a gun to that someone's head and pull the trigger yourself.

I don't see why anyone thinks this bill will ever go anywhere - it would be political suicide for most senators to vote in favor of a draft.
I'm curious: America is at war. Who do you think should fight this war? What do you think we as a country should do if there are not enough people who voluntarily choose to pursue military careers to successfully carry out the objectives of this war?
Do you think that the statesmen and women who have supported the war have "pulled the trigger" on the large numbers of young people -- many with limited career options -- who are now engaged in fighting this war? And if so, do you think this is appropriate?
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:13 PM   #19
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Originally posted by namkcuR
The draft is bullshit and that's all there is to it.

You DO NOT force someone to risk their life against their will.
You wouldn't be forced. You can leave and not come back. Win win.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:51 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Ormus
Most of Rangel's arguments in favor of this concept come from his belief that the poor and minorities are fighting a war that's mainly supported by the rich and powerful ("chicken hawks"). As such, Rangel is pushing for this concept as both a socioeconomic equalizer and as a way to make this war so unpopular as to force a pullout.

With that, this bill will never make it out of committee, and even if it did, it would face a resounding defeat.
True. And if it did by some fluke pass you can bet your ass that very, very, very few well off people (or their children) would ever actually serve.
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Old 11-19-2006, 09:34 PM   #21
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This isn't the first time he's called for a draft, he did it a couple of years ago as well
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus
Most of Rangel's arguments in favor of this concept come from his belief that the poor and minorities are fighting a war that's mainly supported by the rich and powerful ("chicken hawks"). As such, Rangel is pushing for this concept as both a socioeconomic equalizer and as a way to make this war so unpopular as to force a pullout.
The rich and powerful were able to avoid serving in Vietnam and there was a draft then.

Also, I think the war is becoming massively unpopular already even without a draft.
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:51 AM   #23
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What the hell in our history indicates to him that politicians won't lie if there is a draft? Ever since the first draft (the civil war - I believe) the rich have been able to buy their way out; therefore, once again it would be the burden of war on minorities and the oppressed.
Democrats should slap the shit out of him for even opening up his dumbass mouth. I've always been ashamed of the trash and ignorant nonsense that spews forth from this New York representative.
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Old 11-20-2006, 10:08 AM   #24
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If the draft is a real threat, I think the opposition to the war will get even stronger. The guys I know have said they'd flee the country before they'd be sent to Iraq. There is no rallying around this one, people don't want it, the election proved that. Now wouldn't it be ironic if it was the Democrats who brought the draft back after people voted them in just because they hated Bush?
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Old 11-20-2006, 12:43 PM   #25
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Originally posted by U2democrat


Right. I think part of Rangel's motivation is to scare people into educating themselves and getting a dialogue going, because damnit this country needs it.
Do you think the American public is that smart? This strikes me as political suicide, and I'm not sure for what.
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:43 PM   #26
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Originally posted by nathan1977


Do you think the American public is that smart? This strikes me as political suicide, and I'm not sure for what.
Well they won a few IQ points with the last election, so maybe there's hope.
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:51 PM   #27
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i do agree with Rangel's main point, which Melon elucidated -- part of the reason Americans seem so willing to use military force as a first resort (like in Iraq) is that it remains quite abstract to the elites who don't have children over there, and then to the college kids who aren't being freshly plucked a month after graduation to go get gunned down in a rice patty like in 1967.

i would challenge everyone to take a drive through some of the most economically downtrodden areas in the country -- Indian reservations, rust belt ghost towns, etc., and count how many military recruitment billboards are posted along the roads. when your school system has failed you, when college is unaffordable, and the military is offering you a way to pay for an education, is it any wonder those without money but with plenty of ambition are drawn to the military?

in peacetime, this seems a good thing, and there's little doubt that hundreds of thousands have greatly benefited from a volunteer army -- but such a system is ripe for abuse by the Bushies and their Marie Antoinette attitudes, as is the current situation.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:14 PM   #28
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If I were a soldier, I wouldn't want people standing on the line with me, backing me up, to be people who don't want to be there.

However I absolutely agree with the point underpinning his argument. If you want to be a 20 year old chickenhawk, you better offer up some responsibility here. The stench of hypocrisy is absolutely fantastic. If you don't think this war is worth your life or the life of your children and yet you support it wholeheartedly, that's stunning.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:43 PM   #29
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I agree with his argument, too. If you support the war, you need to be willing to participate in the sacrifice, not have the kids across town take on the whole burden. But this isn't going to get passed. Even Nancy Pelosi doesn't support it.
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Old 11-20-2006, 04:06 PM   #30
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If the Democrats brought in the draft they'd be hung up on meathooks, the republicans would sweep 08 and we'd be looking past 2020 for any hope of them making a political comeback. This is one of the stupidest idea I've ever heard of.
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