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Old 07-05-2004, 03:23 AM   #1
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Senator Kerry: Personal beliefs vs. legislation

''Vatican II is very clear. There is something called freedom of conscience in the Catholic Church," Kerry told the Telegraph Herald of Dubuque in a story in its Sunday editions. ''I oppose abortion, personally. I don't like abortion. I believe life does begin at conception. But I can't take my Catholic belief, my article of faith, and legislate it on a Protestant or a Jew or an atheist . . . who doesn't share it. We have separation of church and state in the United States of America."


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Old 07-05-2004, 04:47 AM   #2
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The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those who remain neutral during times of great moral crisis.

Anybody want any waffle fries with that sandwich ?
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Old 07-05-2004, 05:08 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oregoropa
The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those who remain neutral during times of great moral crisis.

Anybody want any waffle fries with that sandwich ?
I feel much safer knowing that so many humans down here know the exact fate of us...why have God when you have them?
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Old 07-05-2004, 07:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oregoropa
The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those who remain neutral during times of great moral crisis.

Anybody want any waffle fries with that sandwich ?
I think that America can make much greater progress by putting our differences aside and working together. Currently our intolerance level is very high and our country is becoming more divided.
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:22 AM   #5
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I think that America can make much greater progress by putting our differences aside and working together. Currently our intolerance level is very high and our country is becoming more divided.
I couldn't agree more. This divisiveness in our country right now is really scaring me. There is way too much "people who disagree with me are cruds, jerks and idiots" mentality out there on *both* sides of the political spectrum. Yesterday we celebrated the Fourth of July. One of the freedoms people gave their lives for is freedom of conscience. I agree with the Senator. He is correct in pointing out that Vatican II gave freedom of conscience to Catholics. I am a Catholic also. I have been specifically told by our priests in our diocese that I'm free to vote for whoever I want to vote for.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:00 AM   #6
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I'm personally opposed to abortion too, but I agree w/ Senator Kerry. Some people might accuse him of being a hypocrite, but I support him in this position.

I don't think he's doing this for political purposes - I believe this is how he truly feels.

If I were in his position-as a legislator/politician who is morally opposed to abortion, I think I might have to reach the same conclusion.

At least he is able to separate his religious views from his job, unlike some politicians who shall remain nameless
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:24 AM   #7
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I'd rather have a man who votes his conscience.
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:40 AM   #8
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Originally posted by Seabird
I'd rather have a man who votes his conscience.
He didn't say he wouldn't vote his conscience. He said he wouldn't force his beliefs through legislation onto others. Somehow our country needs to unite. To me, that's a start.
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Old 07-05-2004, 11:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oregoropa
The hottest fires in hell are reserved for those who remain neutral during times of great moral crisis.
Bullshit. Even Dante reserved the hottest fires of hell (or should I say the "coldest") for traitors in "Inferno."

Of course, for decades, the Catholic Church (Kerry's religion) understood and supported a clear line between religion and politics, as long as, of course, you understood your moral duty in your personal life and in your personal interaction with others. But I'm guessing they advocated this when their morality was in the minority, and they were afraid of having Protestants legislating their morality over theirs. And now that the Vatican is no different from the extremism of the Christian Coalition, they're willing to be part of the tyranny of the majority.

In other words, he IS voting his conscience! His conscience happens to believe in a strict separation of church and state, and, in regards to abortion or when life begins, if others disagree and others commit abortions, then THEY will have to settle that fact with their own conscience and with God someday.

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Old 07-05-2004, 03:00 PM   #10
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I can understand voting for what your constituancy wants more than what you want, all reps should. Too often they don't, or let money get in the way.

But, on the subject of abortion, I could never vote in favor of anything supporting or defending it. I'd feel like I was partly responsible for the deaths of thousands of babies. It's not a religious thing with me, it's simply a right and wrong thing. I don't think a woman should be allowed to kill her unborn baby any more than she should have a 'right' to 'choose' to kill her husband or her boss, or hold up a liquor store.

I think in most cases it has nothing to do with separation of church and state, pro abortionists only use that. I also don't see how the constitution was twisted to allow abortion through some vague 'privacy' clause. If that's the case, why is illegal to smoke pot in your own home, or not wear a seat belt in your car? It's twisted conveniently for what they wanted it to say, while technically other things would be unconstitutional by the same definition.

As far as the country coming 'together'- oh, what does that mean, you want everyone to agree with you, and the other side has to shut up?
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:05 PM   #11
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I can't vote for Kerry. How can he make a statement like that, after voting against banning late term abortions in the Senate ? What the hell does he stand for ?

At some point morality comes into play in politics. Maybe not the morality of one specific religious denomination, but the collective human understanding of right and wrong.
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:16 PM   #12
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I agree Oregoropa. Any person who could stomach supporting partial birth abortion, where the baby is delivered alive out the birth canal, the spinal column is cut and the brain sucked out and the skull crushed is not getting my support! That disgusts me more than I can express. It's also one of the reasons I hate Hillary Clinton. I don't care how anyone tries to justify it, partial birth abortion is cold blooded, vicious murder, a more horrendous death than suffered my most murder victims. If a person has ever voted in favor of it, or against a ban, I will NEVER vote for them!

I also agree with your second statement, and just posted something like that myself.
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oregoropa
I can't vote for Kerry. How can he make a statement like that, after voting against banning late term abortions in the Senate ? What the hell does he stand for ?
I'm sorry, did you not read Kerry's statement? He voted against banning abortion because he acknowledges that his opposition to abortion, based as it is on religious faith, should not be forced upon those who do not share his faith. His actions are perfectly consistent with his statement.
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:28 PM   #14
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I don't think a person has to have a shred of religious faith in your blood to agree that "late term" abortions are wrong.
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Old 07-05-2004, 03:32 PM   #15
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I don't think a person has to have a shred of religious faith in your blood to agree that "late term" abortions are wrong.
Then your argument is merely that you disagree with Kerry's vote, not that you believe his statement to be hypocritical, as you implied in your first post.
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