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Old 07-10-2004, 08:38 AM   #106
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Originally posted by U2girl
(even though I'd said I won't be back in FYM this thread with its 7 pages intrigued me)

Mrs Edge, Moonlit_angela and Wolfeden, great points.

Abortion is always a touchy topic and I guess it's hard to really talk if one hasn't been in such a situation, and I would think it depends on each pregnancy's specifics.

As a person and a female, I agree that abortion should be a choice. Not the first choice, not the only choice, but a choice in extreme cases after you tried everything else (for example medical reasons when either baby's or mother's life is threatened). I would not allow myself to judge anyone who chooses it, because it is THEIR life and they make the decisions in it. One of women's important rights is the decision WHEN she will have babies.
Ho hum more typical rhetoric. First of all, it's not just "HER" life, it's the baby's too. How about the decision WHEN to have a baby gets made BEFORE she gets pregnant? And don't hand me the old rape shit, that's an exception.

Quote:
But to say it's "convenient" or "birth control" is cold and harsh to the women who took that choice. The worst of all is calling it "murder" - do not compare an unborn embrio to a fully developed human/born child and a woman to a cold-blooded killer.
No one will be facing the consequences of that decision more than they will and I'm sure no one did more soul-searching and deep thinking more than they did.
The reason so many people say there are too many abortions for 'convenience' is because most occur just because someone was too careless to use readily available birth control, or 'changed her mind.' You can't be so sure of all that 'soul searching' since some people have no conscience (or soul IMO!)

For me, saying "if you don't believe in it don't get one but don't stop someone else" is exactly the same as saying, well, if Jane wants to shoot the boss tonight, that's her choice, but I couldn't be the one to pull the trigger. Some things are very wrong and everyone should be stopped from doing them.

I can't in my own conscience think, oh well it's their business let them do what they want. If I believe it's wrong, I feel like I am letting the helpless unborn down by not speaking out!


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It's interesting how our civilization (well, certain countries anyway), so loudly advocating life, has no problem killing people in certain criminal/legal circumstances.
I am completely stunned and at a loss at people comparing a criminal who has brutally killed one or more people with an unborn baby who never did anything at all. (If anything, the woman getting the abortion is much more in the category with the murderer than the baby!) The death penalty is only used in the most extreme of cases, people who have killed intentionally in cold blood in violent or grotesque ways. These people are determined to be a danger to society. There are some, and I am among them, who don't believe that someone who has so cruelly deprived others of their lives deserves to live out theirs, even in prison where they will have 3 meals a day, TV, computer, even ball games to play. They could live for years, sharing visits and letters with loved ones, something their victims will never get to do. They took lives, they do not deserve theirs.
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:45 AM   #107
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Angela, can I just double check, you think a late term abortion at 6/7/8 months is a mother's choice if there are no percieved health risks but she just 'changes her mind'?
I can't see how this can even be debated once the pregnancy has passed viability.
Neither can I If there was ever any doubt if abortion is murder, you'd think there would be no doubt after the baby is viable!
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:57 AM   #108
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In this day and age there shouldn't need to be the option of having an abortion or not. Unless the girl is unbelievably stupid and not able to learn the basics of sex ed, it's rather simple. Keep your knickers on and your legs closed if you are not prepared to deal with the consequences. Am I unsympathetic to the mother? Yep. Tough titties. It is a rare case where the birth control has failed or the abortion is a result of rape. In any other case it IS the mother's responsibility and her duty to ensure it hadn't happened in the first place. Abortion doesn't need to be a solution to "whoops I fucked up" and should never be. Trick is to not fuck up in the first place. But I'm sure this point has already been argued in this thread.
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Old 07-10-2004, 11:26 AM   #109
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Yes there DOES need to be the option...in cases where it is absolutely necessary! There should be strict regulations but it still needs to be there!!!!!

Sure in an idealistic world birth control would work and people would keep their legs closed except when wanting to procreate but the world does not work that way!!!!!

I give up. Besides, I thought this thread was supposed to be about Kerry not enforcing his beliefs on people anyway
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Old 07-10-2004, 11:40 AM   #110
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As I said, it is rare when the birth control doesn't work or the pregnancy is a result of rape. It is also not terribly often a mother's life is in danger. It does happen and I'm not even talking about those instances. So perhaps instead of rolling your eyes, re-read what I said. I said nothing about sex only for procreation. Complain about posts, but only when it is warranted for God's sake.
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Old 07-10-2004, 11:43 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
In this day and age there shouldn't need to be the option of having an abortion or not. Unless the girl is unbelievably stupid and not able to learn the basics of sex ed, it's rather simple. Keep your knickers on and your legs closed if you are not prepared to deal with the consequences. Am I unsympathetic to the mother? Yep. Tough titties. It is a rare case where the birth control has failed or the abortion is a result of rape. In any other case it IS the mother's responsibility and her duty to ensure it hadn't happened in the first place. Abortion doesn't need to be a solution to "whoops I fucked up" and should never be. Trick is to not fuck up in the first place. But I'm sure this point has already been argued in this thread.
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Old 07-10-2004, 11:46 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
As I said, it is rare when the birth control doesn't work or the pregnancy is a result of rape. It is also not terribly often a mother's life is in danger. It does happen and I'm not even talking about those instances. So perhaps instead of rolling your eyes, re-read what I said. I said nothing about sex only for procreation. Complain about posts, but only when it is warranted for God's sake.


Yes, I can't believe all these clinics are being kept in business by these extreme rare cases being presented. As someone posted, abortions for rape, incest, and health issues are only a very small percentage. NO the option does not need to be there just for people who 'change their mind' or can't control themselves sexually any better than a dog and refuse to be responsible about birth control!
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Old 07-10-2004, 11:54 AM   #113
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Originally posted by Mrs. Edge

Sure in an idealistic world birth control would work and people would keep their legs closed except when wanting to procreate but the world does not work that way!!!!!
Gimme a break. If people are going to screw around, they could at least be careful, and too many aren't. The life the careless person created should not have to suffer for being a 'mistake.' I can't believe some people look at this as no more than rewinding a videotape or resetting a videogame when you're losing! Why can't people accept the responsibility for the life they created while being careless sexually?

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I give up. Besides, I thought this thread was supposed to be about Kerry not enforcing his beliefs on people anyway
Any time the volatile issue of abortion is brought up, heated arguments are going to happen. It happens on every board I've ever been to, even political ones.
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Old 07-10-2004, 12:12 PM   #114
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I dont know how many abortions occur just for the sake of it, but those I could never understand. I dont know either how often an abortion is the result of rape, risk to the mother, or the birth control not working and so on, but those are cases where anyone needs to have a whole lot of sympathy and a show of support for the woman who is facing that.
For the others where it is an unfortunate accident, it has tragic consequences. Too much care cannot be taken to prevent an abortion being a decision anyone has to make. The problem exists a good month before that. The solution isn't any more about having abortions than it is abstaining from sex. The solution is to up the amount of care we all take to save ourselves from ending up in that situation.
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Old 07-10-2004, 12:39 PM   #115
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Indeed.
Since it's plainly obvious that some people prefer to keep their heads planted in the sand and would rather stand in judgement than read up on the medical facts, I'm done here.

Thank you John Kerry. You have my vote.
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Old 07-10-2004, 12:41 PM   #116
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Since you like reading up on medical facts here are some pics that might interest you.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...s/archive1.htm

It's time we showed the truth about what that 'choice' really is!
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Old 07-10-2004, 12:58 PM   #117
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*edit* Nevermind.

I don't have to or need to defend my opinion, especially not to an agressive tone you used, Blueberry poptart.

I did forget to add that maybe instead of judging/blaming/critisizing/singling out (it takes two to get pregnant) etc... the woman maybe it'd be nice to show compassion and offer support to her in those no doubt hard times she's going through.
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Old 07-10-2004, 01:04 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
In this day and age there shouldn't need to be the option of having an abortion or not. Unless the girl is unbelievably stupid and not able to learn the basics of sex ed, it's rather simple. Keep your knickers on and your legs closed if you are not prepared to deal with the consequences. Am I unsympathetic to the mother? Yep. Tough titties. It is a rare case where the birth control has failed or the abortion is a result of rape. In any other case it IS the mother's responsibility and her duty to ensure it hadn't happened in the first place. Abortion doesn't need to be a solution to "whoops I fucked up" and should never be. Trick is to not fuck up in the first place. But I'm sure this point has already been argued in this thread.
Why is it the woman you single out for criticism? Surely both the man and woman should share responsibility for using suitable contraception.

That said, contraception is not 100% effective. That's not opinion, it's fact. Certainly people should take whatever precuations they can to ensure they don't find themselves in the position of having an unplanned pregnancy, but taking suitable precautions does not guarantee that the situation will not arise.
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Old 07-10-2004, 01:34 PM   #119
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It's the middle of the night Fizz, I'm typing incomplete and half arsed replies in here I think contraception is the responsiblility of everyone involved in the act.
My personal views are also a lot more convoluted and hypocritical than I could ever express in a few words on a message board. I say hypocritical because I know that I feel differently about each circumstance, but as I have no idea on every circumstance, it is one of those things people can only speak about from their own experiences and perspectives etc.
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Old 07-10-2004, 02:52 PM   #120
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Originally posted by U2girl
I did forget to add that maybe instead of judging/blaming/critisizing/singling out (it takes two to get pregnant) etc... the woman maybe it'd be nice to show compassion and offer support to her in those no doubt hard times she's going through.
Sorry I've had my share of oh poor me stories from people who purposely left their pills at home or were too drunk to take one and then whined about being in trouble. I have also known girls who got pregnant on purpose then 'changed their mind.' There is no way I believe all the abortion clinics are for the tragic, extreme cases some of you keep bringing up. Nope, not one ounce of compassion for girls who put themselves in bad situations then cried about it later. My compassion lies with the baby!

The only way for her to make it right is to follow through with the life she has started and take responsibility for it, or give it up for adoption.
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