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Old 01-21-2005, 06:52 PM   #61
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Why would you think this? Because a politician mentions faith?
It's not a matter of "thought", it's a matter of historical accuracy. I note that you have not attempted to answer the question.
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:52 PM   #62
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Is it the election of a Christian President?


Or a conservative Christian President? (the horror!!!)
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:55 PM   #63
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I refer you to the question I posed some moments ago.
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:07 PM   #64
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You've tossed a number of questions and accusations out there.
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Old 01-21-2005, 08:58 PM   #65
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If you're challenging anything I said, please do so. It is my understanding, that is all.
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Old 01-21-2005, 10:56 PM   #66
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Originally posted by strannix


Thanks.

As I thought, the line that "Kerry staunchly resists restrictions on abortions" is highly suspect. As it turns out, it's not something that Kerry said at all; it's simply a line from his biography, provided without context. Did they mean that he resisted restrictions throughout his career? Or just in one instance? Were they talking about all restrictions, or just a certain set that came up for vote? Impossible to say without having a copy of the book present, which I don't.



We agree that he supported the constitutional ammendment, correct? Here is the original version of that amendment:

"Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman.
Neither this constitution or the constitution of any state, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups."
I did not read John Kerry's biography, but if you checked out the link, they identified Bush as a hardcore conservative, and if I recall correctly, Kerry was identified as a liberal-leaning libertarian. Kerry publically stated that life begins at conception, yet he was cut down when it comes to legislating against Roe vs. Wade. From what I understand, that amendment was over the MARRIAGE title. I did read your link, and I did not find anywhere that suggests banning CIVIL UNIONS. From what Kerry's recent records have told, he is "against" gay marriage, but believes that there should be room for civil unions.

From http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_...vil_Rights.htm

John Kerry on Gay Rights

Cheney's daughter, a lesbian, would say gay is not a choice.

We're all God's children. If you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as. If you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people in a marriage and they struggled with it. I've met wives supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally broke out and allowed themselves to live who they were, who they felt God had made them. We have to respect that.

Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004

The Constitution calls for same-sex partnership rights
I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also believe because we're the USA, we're a country with a great, unbelievable Constitution, with rights that we afford people, that you can't discriminate in the rights that you afford people. You can't disallow someone the right to visit their partner in a hospital. You have to allow people to transfer property, which is why I'm for partnership rights. With respect to DOMA & the marriage laws, the states have always been able to manage those laws

Source: Third Bush-Kerry debate, in Tempe AZ Oct 13, 2004

Personally believes marriage is between a man & a woman
If the Massachusetts legislature crafts an amendment that provides for partnership and civil unions, then I would support it, and it would advance the goal of equal protection. I personally believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

Source: Paul Farhi, Washington Post May 15, 2004

Defense of Marriage Act is fundamentally ugly
In 1996, John Kerry again parted with the church when he voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, which created a federal defintion of marriage as the union between a man and a woman and prohibited the extending of federal marital benefits, such as Social Security, for same-sex partners. Kerry called the Defense of Marriage Act "fundamentally ugly, fundamentally political, and fundamentally flawed."

Source: Complete Biography By The Boston Globe, p.294 Apr 27, 2004

Opposes Massachusetts DOMA since there's a federal DOMA
Q: You say you oppose gay marriage. You also oppose the federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. Do you think other states should have to recognize a gay marriage performed in Massachusetts?
KERRY: I said very clearly that I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But notwithstanding that belief, there was no issue in front of the country when that was put before the US Senate.

Q: You also said that you believe the Defense of Marriage Act was fundamentally unconstitutional.

KERRY: I was incorrect in that statement. I think, in fact, that no state has to recognize something that is against their public policy. For 200 years, we have left marriage up to the states.

Q: So would you support the Massachusetts Defense of Marriage Act?

KERRY: No, because the Defense of Marriage Act is the law of the land today.

Source: Democratic 2004 primary debate at USC Feb 26, 2004

For partnership rights and civil union
Q: What can you do to help make sure that gays and lesbians have an opportunity to build and love their families?
A: I have always fought for the right of people to be able to be treated equally in America. Long before there was a television show or a march in Washington. In 1985, I was the sole sponsor of the Civil Rights Act to make sure we enforced that in America. I am for partnership rights. I am for civil union. I am for the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. I am for the hate crimes legislation

Source: CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003

Provide gays and lesbians with full coverage of civil rights
We have great difficulties in providing people with full coverage of civil rights in this country, particularly gays and lesbians.
Source: KERRY/WELD: CLASH OF THE TITANS, PBS.org Jun 5, 1996



You may want to check this out as well: http://civilliberty.about.com/od/usp...CivilUnion.htm

It seems to have a smidgen of liberal buzz in it (which I'm sure you don't mind), such as the word "fundamentalists", but overall, it's to the point.

Bush supported the DOMA, but he also ran unopposed to civil unions. Kerry opposed the DOMA, but yet he ran (or at least personally declared, along with Edwards, that they are) against same sex marriage. I'd sure like a further explanation by Kerry as to why he finds the DOMA "fundamentally ugly", etc.
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Old 01-23-2005, 05:50 PM   #67
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"Is it the election of a Christian President?


Or a conservative Christian President? (the horror!!!)"


~nbcrusader



Why a horror?

Why do you think that way?
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
"Is it the election of a Christian President?


Or a conservative Christian President? (the horror!!!)"


~nbcrusader



Why a horror?

Why do you think that way?
Sorry, that was sarcasm. The intollerance of conservative Christians runs through many of the threads here.
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:03 PM   #69
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"Sorry, that was sarcasm. The intollerance of conservative Christians runs through many of the threads here."


No problem, thanks for your reply.

Take care
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