Senator Clinton Defends Faith Based Solutions - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2005, 09:49 AM   #46
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 340
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Kerry didn't lose because he failed to capture the center. He actually won the moderate vote, 54-45, a bigger margin than Gore. Not many people know that.

The problem for Kerry was that more voters identified themselves as conservatives than in 2000. Simply put, the center isn't as big as it used to be. Trying to win by moving there is a big loser of a strategy.
__________________

__________________
strannix is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 10:12 AM   #47
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Kerry had quite a liberal voting record in his legislation. First, he's for something, but now he's running against it. It hurt him more than it would've helped him if he just stuck with his original stances. I think it could've anyways.
__________________

__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 10:30 AM   #48
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
So in the Carter instance, the party voters chose a more moderate candidate but that candidate didn't change his views. It seems to me that Kerry tried this political maneuvering and the Republicans dug up quotes that contradicted his new stances, allowing him, whether you agree or not, to be effectively labeled as a flip-flopper.
Correct. Carter didn't change his views. Also, he was a state governor and these guys are more successful in Presidential campaigns than Senators and Congressmen are. To a certain extent Kerry changed with the context, but his voting record was basically that of a moderate liberal. He started his Senate career during the latter part of the Cold War, then the Soviet Union fell apart and there was the innocence (naivite, perhaps) of the "Peace Dividend Years", and then the wake-up call of 9/11.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 11:09 AM   #49
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 340
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
First, he's for something, but now he's running against it.
Urban myth....
__________________
strannix is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 11:17 AM   #50
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Not to shift into a particular subject, but to give you an example.

In 1996, Kerry voted NO on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Personally believes marriage is between a man & a woman. (May 2004)
Defense of Marriage Act is fundamentally ugly. (Apr 2004)

So why did he run against gay marriage?

Kerry staunchly resists restrictions on abortions. (Apr 2004)
Partial-birth abortion ban undermine women's right to choose. (Nov 2003)
Against partial-birth abortion but there are exceptions. (Oct 2004)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)

Urban myth indeed. John Kerry has a very consistent voting record, that's pretty much a fact.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 11:44 AM   #51
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 340
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Well, for one thing, I don't think it's fair to say that he "ran against gay marriage". He never made any proposal that I'm aware of that would have made his policy law, and as you pointed out, he voted against such a policy when he had the chance.

For another thing, I don't know if there was anything really contradictory about Kerry's stance on gay marriage. There's a difference between being opposed to something personally, and wanting that something be legally banned. I don't smoke and I would advise people I know not to smoke, but I would oppose banning cigarettes. Is that inconsistent? Same thing with Kerry and gay marriage, from what I can tell.

And anyway, if you're offering this as an example of something that hurt Kerry, I'd beg to differ. His stance was identical to Bush's - no gay marriage, civil unions OK. And Bush made much more of a flip-flop than Kerry to arrive at that stance, as he earlier supported the constitutional amendment that would have banned civil unions.

I don't know if there's anything inconsistent with his stance on partial birth abortion, either. He said he wanted exceptions, and he voted against the bill when such exceptions were not included. But I'd appreciate it if you could provide citations for the positions from April 04 and Nov 03 - I wonder if they're accurately paraphrased.
__________________
strannix is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 12:53 PM   #52
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 09:28 AM
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/John_Kerry.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush.htm

Seems very accurate to me, unless there is something you care to correct.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 12:56 PM   #53
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Another note, nothing on there was said about Bush "banning civil unions", if you can provide a credible source for that, it would help contribute to our discussion.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:27 PM   #54
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 442
Local Time: 01:28 PM
When Kerry said he opposed gay marriage, I didn't believe him. I think he was hiding his true views to get elected. Just my opinion.
__________________
drhark is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:30 PM   #55
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 09:28 AM
Mine too.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:40 PM   #56
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 340
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/John_Kerry.htm
http://www.issues2000.org/George_W__Bush.htm

Seems very accurate to me, unless there is something you care to correct.
Thanks.

As I thought, the line that "Kerry staunchly resists restrictions on abortions" is highly suspect. As it turns out, it's not something that Kerry said at all; it's simply a line from his biography, provided without context. Did they mean that he resisted restrictions throughout his career? Or just in one instance? Were they talking about all restrictions, or just a certain set that came up for vote? Impossible to say without having a copy of the book present, which I don't.

Quote:
Another note, nothing on there was said about Bush "banning civil unions", if you can provide a credible source for that, it would help contribute to our discussion.
We agree that he supported the constitutional ammendment, correct? Here is the original version of that amendment:

"Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman.
Neither this constitution or the constitution of any state, nor state or federal law, shall be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups."
__________________
strannix is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:43 PM   #57
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 340
Local Time: 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
When Kerry said he opposed gay marriage, I didn't believe him. I think he was hiding his true views to get elected. Just my opinion.
It's certainly possible. Of both candidates.
__________________
strannix is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 05:53 PM   #58
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Very positive comments

Hillary knows how to get red state votes
Yeah, I agree. Hilary is a political slut who will sell her own soul to get any votes available. In other words, she is no different from any other politicians.

More importantly - and I would love if someone would answer this for me - since when did the United States "convert" from a secular republic to a Christian theocrary?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 06:47 PM   #59
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

More importantly - and I would love if someone would answer this for me - since when did the United States "convert" from a secular republic to a Christian theocrary?
Why would you think this? Because a politician mentions faith?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 06:50 PM   #60
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:28 PM
No, because most of the founding fathers weren't Christians. Christianity has used the noble ideals of the founding fathers to suit its own power games.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com