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Old 06-19-2005, 08:16 PM   #46
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What about the evidence coming out of Gitmo? At the end of the month many more photos from several facilities are going to hit the media, most much worse that those shown. I don't think they are confined to the same unit. Even the Mogabi's(?) report stated systematic not isolated.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:29 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I agree....it completely makes it difficult to have a conversation about it.

Sad...and true.
I don't know whether he didn't realise that what he said would cause a stir, or - even dumber - thought he needed to say it to cause a stir, but it's just a really, really awfully stupid tactic. Annoyingly so, and it's a common mistake made by Democrats and others in opposition. There he goes and reads from an FBI report loaded with evidence of awful treatment at Gitmo, and makes some really great points along the way. That's enough. End there. Force the fuckers to answer to that. There's enough sensationalism there alone. But he makes that bad link, which despite his probable meaning and intentions, is all it takes for that Replublican stiff, Captain Dickhead the Senator for Buttfuck, Idaho or wherever, to get up and drawl like an old school American patriot and act like this Democrat just wiped his arse with an American flag. What are the headlines the next day? The FBI Report or the US Military/Nazi link? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. And they do it all the time. It should be so, so easy, but they make it so much harder on themselves. I watched the Durbins speech and as soon as he said 'Nazi/Gulag' I wanted to leap into my tv and slap him round. Then the Republican gets up and I want to leap into my tv and punch him out. It's all so frustrating. It's the dumb debating the devil.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:36 PM   #48
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How could he not have known.....

it was within a week of the controversy with Amnesty.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:40 PM   #49
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Because a good many of us believe it is true. Not the soldiers actions, but this admins policies

He is the whip - his job is to whip up the base not be congenial.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:43 PM   #50
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If that is the base....and that is the method of whipping it up....The democratic party is in big trouble....
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:49 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Scarletwine
Because a good many of us believe it is true. Not the soldiers actions, but this admins policies

He is the whip - his job is to whip up the base not be congenial.
But the report alone should be enough to whip up the base. The report alone was what that smug piece of shit Republican should have been answering to. The Democrat, no matter how you or I or Dreadsox or anyone personaly feel about those comments, was plain stupid for making them because it played into the Republicans hands completely. It's like he had a grenade and lobbed it at them, but left the pin in. The Republican guy just pulled the pin out and threw it back and it blew up in his face. Dumb.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:06 PM   #52
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I agree to a point. But it wouldn't even get any attention negative or positive otherwise. Such is the Corporatation (fascism) of our media.
I think eventually with enough airplay of sensationlistic statements the public will begin to believe them. Look at the celebrity crap, sensaltional trials, ect. In the meantime they may look stupid.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:14 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
Because a good many of us believe it is true. Not the soldiers actions, but this admins policies

He is the whip - his job is to whip up the base not be congenial.
So I see the "moveon.org", "common dreams" and "Daily Kos" crowd think that they are now the base of the Democrats. If this is the case then that party is so screwed.
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Old 06-19-2005, 10:48 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers


The Democrat, no matter how you or I or Dreadsox or anyone personaly feel about those comments, was plain stupid for making them because it played into the Republicans hands completely.
I honestly no longer believe it's an accident.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Sen. Durbin Apologizes for Gitmo Remarks

By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer 51 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Under fire from Republicans and some fellow Democrats, Sen. Dick Durbin apologized Tuesday for comparing American interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to Nazis and other historically infamous figures.


"Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line," the Illinois Democrat said. "To them I extend my heartfelt apologies."

His voice quaking and tears welling in his eyes, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate also apologized to any soldiers who felt insulted by his remarks.

"They're the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them," he said.

The apology came a week after Durbin, the Senate minority whip, quoted from an
FBI agent's report describing detainees at the Naval base in a U.S.-controlled portion of Cuba as being chained to the floor without food or water in extreme temperatures.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:47 PM   #56
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That is exactly my point. I heard his apology on the floor and Mc Cain spoke in his defense.

He was talking about the leadership. not our troops.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:55 PM   #57
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McCain called for him to get on the floor of the Senate and apologize on Sunday.

I am not sure that constitutes coming to his defense.
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Old 06-21-2005, 05:03 PM   #58
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McCain in his own words

[Q]MR. RUSSERT: Your Democratic colleague Dick Durbin of Illinois set off a firestorm when he compared the actions of Americans at Guantanamo to Nazis, Soviet Gulags and Pol Pot. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said that Senator Durbin should be censured by the Senate for those comments.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I think that Senator Durbin owes not only the Senate an apology—I don't know if censure would be in order--but an apology because it does a great disservice to men and women who suffered in the gulag and in Pol Pot's killing fields. Dick Durbin should be required to read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipelago" and I think that he would--may have a better understanding that there's no comparison whatsoever. And it does a great disservice to the majority of men and women who are serving in Guantanamo who are doing the job that they're told to do and they're doing it in a humane fashion. To tar the American servicemen and women with a brush that applies to the gulag or the killing fields is a great disservice to the men and women in the military who are serving honorably down there.

MR. RUSSERT: Should he formally apologize?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I don't know what a formal--but he should certainly apologize.

MR. RUSSERT: Will the Senate take any action against him?

SEN. McCAIN: I predict to you that by the time this program is shown next Sunday that Mr. Durbin will have apologized.
[/Q]
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:31 AM   #59
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He did take the floor right after Durbin spoke yesterday to thank him for his apology and defend his support for the troops. Sorry you didn't see it.
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Old 06-22-2005, 06:28 AM   #60
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SEN. McCAIN: Well, I think that Senator Durbin owes not only the Senate an apology—I don't know if censure would be in order--but an apology because it does a great disservice to men and women who suffered in the gulag and in Pol Pot's killing fields. Dick Durbin should be required to read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipelago" and I think that he would--may have a better understanding that there's no comparison whatsoever. And it does a great disservice to the majority of men and women who are serving in Guantanamo who are doing the job that they're told to do and they're doing it in a humane fashion. To tar the American servicemen and women with a brush that applies to the gulag or the killing fields is a great disservice to the men and women in the military who are serving honorably down there

Durbin's apology was scripted and it hedged a bit. A teeny bit condscending.
It was as sincere as he could be but I think he did do irrepairable damage to our troops.

He will never fully recover from this, the majority of the country won't forget his original statements and also the majority of the country/military will never take him seriously again.

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