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Old 06-18-2005, 09:43 PM   #31
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer

Most people; and I would venture a lot if not most Republicans found the Schiavo meddling out of line. Trying to overrule a court decision with your political clout violates seperation of the powers.
Which begs the question of why Jeb et al. are still meddling even when most of their supporters find them out of line?
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Old 06-18-2005, 09:54 PM   #32
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Because they are being utter wankers; they probably have it on "good advice" that they can get votes out of it. I think that it will backfire on them because it does make them look foolish. I just guess that we will see which way it goes, hopefully it backfires and in 2006 they get a negative response. Then it will establish the playing field for 2008. I hope that the religious groups can be marginalised as much as possible in the next few years.

The candidates that are run are only as good as those that will elect them. If America really does undergo a full "Christian Revival" then it won't be long before the Democrats get wise and start to take up these issues as well.
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Old 06-19-2005, 02:24 AM   #33
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Originally posted by anitram


Dread,

Do you think a centrist is gonna go running into the arms of a party which is still obsessed with a corpse that had a shriveled up brain and was blind for 15 years? And despite the fact the public now believes only 19% of Congress represents their values, this particular party is prattling on about whether, even though this corpse was really a corpse, perhaps it got that way because a husband watched his collapsed wife on the floor for 70 minutes 15 years ago?

Let us call a spade a spade. If we are talking extremism, then no moderate is running to Republicans.
Almost all Republicans that I know, and I was an elected member of the Republican Town committee in the town I live in, do not support Jeb Bush. Most republicans and centrist Democrats that I know are more in line with McCain than with Jeb.

When it boils right down to it, I do not see, when soldiers are serving thein Nation, the Democrats winning any support because I have not been able to find ANY counter statements to Durbins,,,,,

WHen Jeb makes an idiotic move, you can count on the fact that there will be Republicans that counter his comments. But that would be for another thread.

I am still waiting to see Dem. Party leadership take a stand on this.
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:52 AM   #34
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Almost all Republicans that I know, and I was an elected member of the Republican Town committee in the town I live in, do not support Jeb Bush. Most republicans and centrist Democrats that I know are more in line with McCain than with Jeb.
That's because you're in Massachusetts. New England Republicans are generally fairly pleasant to be around, with a handful of exceptions. Ann Coulter hated them so much, though, that she called them "elitist liberals" who didn't want to associate with blue collar workers that make up the Democratic Party...lol.

If Republicans nationwide were more like New England Republicans, I would probably be happier.

Melon
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Old 06-19-2005, 12:08 PM   #35
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[In the latest poll only 40% of Repulicans thought the government was doing a good job or even any job on issues they cared about. That's 60% who think they're not performing. The issues mentioned that they disliked were the judge issue, Schaivo, ect.

If 60% of your base is unhappy, I think 2006 looks real good for the dems.

If you listen to his speech in entirety or read it closer, he's not comparing us to them but that if you just heard the facts you would think it was from some oppressive regime. Melon is exactly right.
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Old 06-19-2005, 02:11 PM   #36
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I read the entire speach, and I find his comments to be innapropriate for such a high ranking official.
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:14 PM   #37
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Originally posted by melon


That's because you're in Massachusetts. New England Republicans are generally fairly pleasant to be around, with a handful of exceptions. Ann Coulter hated them so much, though, that she called them "elitist liberals" who didn't want to associate with blue collar workers that make up the Democratic Party...lol.

If Republicans nationwide were more like New England Republicans, I would probably be happier.

Melon
I agree. Hell, I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary. I could not believe I was crossing over to vote Republican, but I did. It was June, I knew who the nominees were, and I wanted to make a statement because I thought the Republican was going to get elected. Hey, Dread, can we borrow some of your Republicans?
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:58 PM   #38
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I abhor both, but it would be a cold day in hell before I would vote for a party which believes that politics should be the Church's business.
I've seen so much of this attitude here - but isn't politics everyone's business?
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Old 06-19-2005, 04:15 PM   #39
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I've seen so much of this attitude here - but isn't politics everyone's business?
If the Church wants to be a political organization, let's revoke all the tax exempt laws and make the clergy pay taxes like everyone else. Maybe they wouldn't be so smug, if they had to live like everyone else.

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Old 06-19-2005, 04:37 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I read the entire speach, and I find his comments to be innapropriate for such a high ranking official.

We got two more Senators giving aid to the enemy.

Two prominent US senators have delivered stinging rebukes to President George Bush over his handling of Iraq.


posted in aljazeera







Quote:
Senators challenge Bush Iraq optimism



Sunday 19 June 2005 7:50 PM GMT

McCain says US involvement in Iraq will be 'long' and 'hard'

Two prominent US Republican senators have delivered stinging rebukes to President George Bush over his handling of Iraq.

Bush needs to tell Americans that the nation faces "a long, hard slog" in Iraq, Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, said on NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday.

On the same day, Senator Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican, said the White House is "disconnected from reality" in its optimism over the war.

McCain, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said: "Too often we've been told and the American people have been told that we're at a turning point.

"What the American people should have been told and should be told ... [is that] it's long; it's hard; it's tough. It's going to be at least a couple more years."

Falling support

Hagel, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee was quoted by US News and World Report as saying the administration's Iraq policy is failing.

"Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq."

"Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality. It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq"

Senator Chuck Hagel
The two Senators' remarks came as the Bush administration makes a push to counter growing US public impatience with the Iraq war, and to resist demands by some lawmakers to set a date for the withdrawal of US forces.

US public polls show the Iraq war is losing support and hurting Bush's popularity.

While US Vice-President Dick Cheney has asserted that anti-US violence is in its "last throes," a bombing in Baghdad on Sunday that killed at least 23 people underscored the unabated bloodshed.

Baghdad bombing

Iraq's al-Qaida group claimed responsibility for the bombing and said US forces are doomed to failure.

Although there are some hopeful signs in Iraq, Cheney's characterisation is inaccurate, McCain said.

More than 1722 US soldiers have
been killed in Iraq
"I don't think Americans believe that we should cut and run out of Iraq by any stretch of the imagination," he said. "But I think they also would like to be told, in reality, what's going on."

Democratic Senator Christopher Dodd of Connecticut, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said on "This Week" on ABC: "It's important the administration quit trying to pretend everything is going very well here. It's not."

CIA Director Porter Goss, however, said Cheney's assessment is not too far off-mark.

"I think they're not quite in the last throes, but I think they are very close to it," Goss told Time magazine. The emergence of an Iraqi government shows the fighters are "unwanted", he said.

'Making progress'

But Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Goss' statement does not comport with what he heard on a recent visit to Iraq.

"I wish Porter Goss would speak to his intelligence people on the ground," Biden said on CBS's "Face the Nation". "They didn't suggest at all it was near its last throes. Matter of fact it's getting worse, not better," Biden said.

Attacks such as the restaurant
bombing reflect a security crisis

Bush said Iraq presented a "vital test" for American security. "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight," he said on Saturday in his weekly radio address.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said any withdrawal of US troops will depend on Iraq's ability to handle its own security, and said events are moving in the right direction.

"The security forces of Iraq are getting better. We're making progress, making steady progress. They're not yet ready but they are taking over every day more and more of what the coalition has done. And that will mean that there is less need for coalition forces," she told "Fox News Sunday".

Reuters
By

You can find this article at:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...F1E454E6D3.htm
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Old 06-19-2005, 07:08 PM   #41
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Originally posted by deep



We got two more Senators giving aid to the enemy.

Two prominent US senators have delivered stinging rebukes to President George Bush over his handling of Iraq.


posted in aljazeera




Deep, love how out of this entire thread you choose to put my comments into that light. Interesting that you also chose to put words into my mouth. Not surprising in the least.

By the way....

Did McCain and Hagel refer to the soldiers behaviorof in the same light as the Senator from Illinois?

Just skimmed the post....have not seen anything to indicate that they were trying to aid the enemy.....

Clearly by your post you must agree with the Democratic Senator from Illinois that our soldiers are the moral equivalent of Nazis...ect...by your blatent mischaracterization of my posts in here, not very deep at all....rather typically shallow and unkind.
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Old 06-19-2005, 07:24 PM   #42
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I saw a bit of this on the news, saw Durbin give his speech, then the Republican guy rebuke him. Durbin's comments weren't smart, not for any high ground reason, but simply because they made it waaaay too easy for the Republican guy to do exactly what he did - completely ignore the point (the FBI report).
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:05 PM   #43
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I agree....it completely makes it difficult to have a conversation about it.

Sad...and true.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:12 PM   #44
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That I agree with.

But I still think his speech had many good points.
The soldiers follow orders. It's the leadership from the top down at fault. It clearly wasn't there or was complicit.
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:13 PM   #45
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When the problems that occured in Iraq and Afghanistan were uncovered....and it was within the same unit....I agree....

Where I disagree is that it came from anyplace higher than within that Unit.
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