Sen Boxer official signs the challange to contest the Ohio vote - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-07-2005, 11:29 AM   #91
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Not surprisingly, you accept these stories as fact. What is painfully missing is the appropriate legal action if these "facts" had any merit.

Repreatedly pressing the accusations (especially with the last minute dramatic efforts of Ms. Boxer (nice tears)) reek far more of ignorance and partisanship than any kind of concern for integrity or fairness.
Another empty dismissal. Try to change the subject to Boxer's tears all you want. But all the personal attacks on Boxer don't hide the fact that you aren't responding to the matter at hand.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:33 AM   #92
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Another empty dismissal. Try to change the subject to Boxer's tears all you want. But all the personal attacks on Boxer don't hide the fact that you aren't responding to the matter at hand.
Ignore the lack of appropriate legal action over the last 10 weeks and keep waiving the unsubstantiated blog reports as fact all you want. You aren't responding to the matter at hand.
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:35 PM   #93
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Ignore the lack of appropriate legal action over the last 10 weeks and keep waiving the unsubstantiated blog reports as fact all you want. You aren't responding to the matter at hand.
And what exactly is the matter at hand in your eyes? That Barbara Boxer cried fake tears?

I don't know what you are talking about when you cite no legal action. There was a lawsuit filed by the Ohio Dem Party on Election Day regarding the long lines. This article references "multiple legal actions" by people challenging the vote count, including one pending before the Ohio Supreme Court. You'll notice that neither link is to a blog.
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:30 PM   #94
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Originally posted by strannix


And what exactly is the matter at hand in your eyes? That Barbara Boxer cried fake tears?

I don't know what you are talking about when you cite no legal action. There was a lawsuit filed by the Ohio Dem Party on Election Day regarding the long lines. This article references "multiple legal actions" by people challenging the vote count, including one pending before the Ohio Supreme Court. You'll notice that neither link is to a blog.
thanks, stannix.
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Old 01-08-2005, 09:51 AM   #95
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Please read the link strannix added about legal actions. This isn't just about the 8-hour lines. The whole reason Boxer did this was to bring light to problems with voting such as:

-- the fact that the Ohio Secretary of State, who is in charge of the vote, is a Republican and chair of the Ohio Bush campaign. Would you trust your Kerry vote in a partisan's hands?

-- the fact that the Diebold company is based in Ohio and the head of the company said he would deliver a vote for Bush.

-- the fact that Diebold machines have NO paper record. How do you recount if a computer loses it's memory? How do you recount if there is no way to verify the machine wasn't tampered with? At least with optical scan machines, there are pieces of paper that are scanned and can be checked later. Not so with Diebold.

-- there were more people registered in some counties than there were residents of some counties.

So by doing what Boxer did, she could bring more attention to possible reforms:

-- non-partisan Secretary of States who cannot chair a presidential run [some states already have this]
-- paper records of votes. Diebold also makes ATM machines that spit out receipts. They can do the same for voting machines.
-- national registration or registration tied to social security numbers based on addresses on tax ID forms. Eliminates need to register just to and eliminates corruption due to multiple voting.

As for Boxer waiting this long, if any of you read up on the issue, you would know that she did this as a protest on the day the election was to be fully certified by Congress. By voicing her objection, she forced the House and Senate to debate for two hours each the problems that arose from voting in November to put pressure on Congress to pass better election reform. After Florida four years ago, we shouldn't be having these problems now.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:24 AM   #96
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Typically, cases are decided in the courts where their merit is evaluated and acted upon. Boxer only wanted to parade the issue before the court of public opinion.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:25 AM   #97
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Originally posted by strannix
That Barbara Boxer cried fake tears?
I'm glad we agree on something.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:31 AM   #98
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Typically, cases are decided in the courts where their merit is evaluated and acted upon. Boxer only wanted to parade the issue before the court of public opinion.
Courts make decisions based on existing laws. Congress creates the laws. Some of these issues go far beyond the borders of Ohio, which is why this is not a court issue but a Congress issue.

And yes, she used her position to bring light to this issue and put it before the court of public opinion. What's wrong with that? If the American people want paper records of all votes, non-partisan Sec. of States, etc., those in Congress should act on the concerns of their constituents. Everyone seems to be forgetting that Boxer got involved by signing off on a protest logged by a Ohio representative. If her constituents didn't feel their voices were heard, she has a right to stand up. And Boxer represents a state that has mostly Diebold machines so this is an issue for her as well.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:43 AM   #99
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Wow, some people here are being pretty hard on an elected official who actually shows up for important votes and represents the people who elected her the best way she knows how.

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Old 01-08-2005, 10:48 AM   #100
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When the candidate feels it is not worth the fight....it says something about the challenges.
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Old 01-08-2005, 02:07 PM   #101
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He wanted to stay out of it not to ruin any later election. I think he was a coward.
As a resident of Ohio and a member of Election protection, I'm proud of Sen. Boxer and thankful that a Senator would stand up for the voters in this country and not roll over like in 2000.
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Old 01-08-2005, 03:24 PM   #102
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Ohio Letter Seeks Illegal Contributions


Jan 8, 3:02 PM (ET)

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - The state's chief elections officer, accused of mishandling the presidential vote in Ohio, sent a fund-raising letter for his own 2006 gubernatorial campaign that was accompanied by a request for illegal contributions.

A pledge card with the letter from Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, a Republican who co-chaired the Bush-Cheney election campaign in Ohio, said "corporate & personal checks are welcome."

Corporate donations are illegal in Ohio.

His spokesman, Carlo LoParo, said Saturday that any corporate donations would be returned.

Blackwell said the request sent to GOP donors and activists was an oversight. His campaign's fund-raising coordinator, Jeff Ledbetter, blamed a printer for the mistake, saying it used a template for an issue committee, which is allowed to accept corporate donations.

Ledbetter told The Columbus Dispatch that no corporate donations had been received in response to the letter.

Blackwell's letter also praises Republicans for helping deliver Ohio to President Bush.

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., who prepared a report on election problems in Ohio, said the letter supports suspicions that Blackwell's actions as secretary of state during the election "stemmed from partisan political motivations" to help Bush.

Conyers said in a statement that the letter "evidences Secretary Blackwell's poor judgment at best, and the manipulation of election administration for partisan purposes, at worst."

A group of voters citing fraud has challenged Bush's 118,500-vote win in Ohio with the state Supreme Court, citing irregularities including long lines, a shortage of voting machines in minority precincts and problems with computer equipment.
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:01 PM   #103
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It was also on his official letterheas as Sec of State which is also illegal. You can't use Gov't letterhead for a personal matter.
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Old 01-08-2005, 10:21 PM   #104
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What is the American voting population supposed to think of a party that cries for a recount after every presidential election they lose? I have a lot of respect for John Kerry because he not only conceded in a reasonable matter of time, but he left behind a message that we needed to hear. That message was about bringing this country back together, red, white, and blue (I'm referring to independents and third-party voters as "white" here). It was a very uplifting speech, and definately one of the best political speeches of the year in my opinion.

As for the existence of "non-partisan" Secretaries of State, I don't think that can be accomplished, sorry to say. I think everyone here is partisan, at least to some degree. I too dream of a world that can put its differences aside, but that will most likely stay a dream instead of a reality.

If Kenneth Blackwell did in fact break a law, I would like to see him face consequences. I would like to ask Deep where he found his article. Not as a cynic, but just out of curiousity.
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:38 AM   #105
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Non-Partisan and activley being the head of Bush's Reelection campaign while serving as Sec. of State in charge of the election is a whole other matter.

Deep's article was also in my local paper.
Mansfield News Journal. I read it online yesterday also.
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