MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Thanks for the condescending lecture diamond, now I am enlightened 
You miss the point, but I'm not even going to bother..
You miss the point, but I'm not even going to bother..
Sen Boxer official signs the challange to contest the Ohio vote
- Thread starter dazzledbylight
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
deep said:
so according to your premise mr deep, your state would be 'enlightened' if your state let a convicted felon vote.
umm, no thanks.
db9
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diamond
ONE love, blood, life
Gina,MrsSpringsteen said:Thanks for the condescending lecture diamond, now I am enlightened
You miss the point, but I'm not even going to bother..
No I didnt miss the point or lecture you.
Try this on, as a U2 fan you and I have spent days sitting on our duffs waiting to get into the arena to watch a friggin concert.
Is it so much of a sacrafice to stand in line for a few hours to elect an offcial without whining about an inconvience, esp when there are people literally dying to get the same oppurtunity/privilge we have in other countries?
The things we in this country take for granted and bitch about, other ppl would kill themselves to have in their own countries.
So my message is to those that had to stand in line longer than they thought was fair is to QUIT WHINING.
Unbelievable.
db9
deep
Blue Crack Addict
diamond said:
so according to your premise mr deep, your state would be 'enlightened' if your state let a convicted felon vote.
umm, no thanks.
db9
can you (or anyone else) give me a valid reason why an "ex-felon" who has paid his/ her debt to society should not have the right to vote?
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strannix
Acrobat
diamond said:
This is a pretty ridiculous example. Seriously. Yeah, voting and U2 concerts are pretty much the same thing.
Again, you seem to have come up with a justification for just about any possible disenfranchisement. After all, who can object to poll taxes when people would kill themselves to be able to pay a few hundred bucks to vote in other countries?
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I don't see where those people were "whining" - they couldn't vote even after waiting in line, that's the point I think.
I would have waited all day to vote if I had to, and it's far more important to me than any U2 concert, but that's not the point either.
I would have waited all day to vote if I had to, and it's far more important to me than any U2 concert, but that's not the point either.
cydewaze
Refugee
Wow, I'm amazed. We now have two elections in a row where a significant portion of the population is suspicious of the result. It was inexcusable to let it slide the first time (because it breeds distrust), but we did.
This time we decide it's worth invistigating, and what do we get? People upset that our elected officals are trying to make sure that we are electing the person we actually voted for?
I'm really, really disappointed at the conservatives on this one. There's nothing partisan about verifying the integrity of an election. This behaviour is something I expect from small dictatorships, not the United States.
Anyone who is confident of Bush's legitimate win should welcome the chance to prove beyond a doubt that he won legitimately and such an outcome would really help to restore faith in the voting process (of which I have less and less).
Well, I'll guarantee you one thing. Had Kerry (or Gore) won under similar circumstances, you could bet your last dollar that the conservatives would never, EVER let it die. It would live on, Monica-style for the next 20 years, and we'd be beaten over the head with it at every debate.
This time we decide it's worth invistigating, and what do we get? People upset that our elected officals are trying to make sure that we are electing the person we actually voted for?
I'm really, really disappointed at the conservatives on this one. There's nothing partisan about verifying the integrity of an election. This behaviour is something I expect from small dictatorships, not the United States.
Anyone who is confident of Bush's legitimate win should welcome the chance to prove beyond a doubt that he won legitimately and such an outcome would really help to restore faith in the voting process (of which I have less and less).
Well, I'll guarantee you one thing. Had Kerry (or Gore) won under similar circumstances, you could bet your last dollar that the conservatives would never, EVER let it die. It would live on, Monica-style for the next 20 years, and we'd be beaten over the head with it at every debate.
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diamond said:
As someone who voted for Kerry, I think the quit whining method message should be sent to the whole party. The democrats were more than 3million votes behind the republicans, I doubt that had the voting issues been resolved that the result would be any different.
start layign the groundwork and setting the focus NOW for 2008, retake the "morals" high ground which should never have been taken away in the first place, and convince America that the democrats are the party of morals, of peace, of fairness. Don't spend the next 2 years whinign about the votre count and then scramble to come up with a platform.
Start thinking strategically rather than tactically.
All Boxer is doing now is cementing the reputation of being a sore loser. Kerry conceded, Bush won, time to regroup, identify the challenges for 2008 and start work.
Boxer is just coign across like the Bob Stoops of politics, blaming one isolated play in what was an electoral mauling.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
cydewaze said:
Thank you, I'm glad some get it.
cydewaze said:
Perhaps if Kerry had not conceded the perception would be different ? He came across as certain he'd lost, if there's no support for the recount demand from the candidate himself, it's not likely to get a whole lot of poular support.
cydewaze said:
Innocent until proven guilty, the onus is on the democrats to prove it was not fair, and the #1 democrat at the time apparently felt it was fair. His ongoing silence on the matter speaks volumes for how strongly he feels that it was not a fair election.
cydewaze said:
That's because unfortunately they are smarter than the democrats when it comes to electioneering.
How they took the country this time was borderline genius, by all accounts a President fighting an unpopular war in an economic downturn should NOT be winning elections in a cakewalk.
joyfulgirl
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2001
- Messages
- 16,690
cydewaze said:
Do Miss America
War Child
cardosino said:
I don't see this as being about if Kerry lost or not. I don't think anyone's under the false impressions that this will somehow make Kerry the winner. It's about future elections. Cydewaze is right we've had two really fucked up elections in a row and something needs to be done. This is a start.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
cydewaze said:
I guess if you believe this is all about honor and integrity, you would be correct. Boxer sat on the issue until she could make a brief circus about it.
Kerry even reject Boxer's stage performance.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Kerry got it. He won't stoop to this level of political stage play.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Did Kerry say something about it? He's in Iraq
Just wondering nbc, not being sarcastic or whatnot
Just wondering nbc, not being sarcastic or whatnot
strannix
Acrobat
nbcrusader said:
If you agree with the goal ("if you believe this is all about honor and integrity, you would be correct"), what difference does it make what Boxer's motivations are? And how do you know what her motivations are, anyway? It's not like she picked a random moment to do this - she did it when it was legally appropriate for her to do so.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
Maybe he's just flip-flopping. It's odd that now you take his side.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
The conservatives here are making me physically sick.
This is not about Kerry winning or not. He lost, we all know that. Bush will be the president until 2008-09, that's not the point. The point is that some seriously fishy business occurred during this election. The point is that this is the SECOND time in row a scenario like this has unfolded. The point is that the USA is the richest and most powerful country in the world, and a country holding that title should be able to have elections that fucking work.
The point is that a few months ago, Afghanistan had their first election, and Iraq is scheduled to have its first election at the end of the month(if Bush would stop being so stubborn he'd see that Iraq is not ready and that this needs to be prostponed, but that's another issue). The point is that if we, as a nation, are going to go around the world imposing our power on other democracy-less nations unprovoked, and try to implement our own system of democratic elections in these places, then we at very LEAST better goddamn well be a good example and have elections in our own country that work. If we can't restore the integrety to our own election process, how in the HELL can we expect to get it right in other countries that have never even had an election before? But I guarantee you that's a viewpoint George Bush has never even fathomed, because he is nowhere near perceptive enough.
That is why this needs to be questioned and looked into until there is a clear answer. Period. End of discussion. That said, the conservatives(in this thread at least), who are on their soapbox about this, need to stop throwing this BS around like there is no tomorrow. If Bush had lost and nearly all the voting errors were on the Republican side, you would all be in favor of something like this, period, so don't insult the collective intelligence of this board by claiming otherwise in anyway. In fact, stop even making this about Bush vs Kerry. That's over. This is about America not having respect in the world vs America having respect in the world. Of course, most of these same conservatives were the same people who didn't give a shit what the rest of the world thought when we went into Iraq in the first place, so, go figure[sarcastic].
This is not about Kerry winning or not. He lost, we all know that. Bush will be the president until 2008-09, that's not the point. The point is that some seriously fishy business occurred during this election. The point is that this is the SECOND time in row a scenario like this has unfolded. The point is that the USA is the richest and most powerful country in the world, and a country holding that title should be able to have elections that fucking work.
The point is that a few months ago, Afghanistan had their first election, and Iraq is scheduled to have its first election at the end of the month(if Bush would stop being so stubborn he'd see that Iraq is not ready and that this needs to be prostponed, but that's another issue). The point is that if we, as a nation, are going to go around the world imposing our power on other democracy-less nations unprovoked, and try to implement our own system of democratic elections in these places, then we at very LEAST better goddamn well be a good example and have elections in our own country that work. If we can't restore the integrety to our own election process, how in the HELL can we expect to get it right in other countries that have never even had an election before? But I guarantee you that's a viewpoint George Bush has never even fathomed, because he is nowhere near perceptive enough.
That is why this needs to be questioned and looked into until there is a clear answer. Period. End of discussion. That said, the conservatives(in this thread at least), who are on their soapbox about this, need to stop throwing this BS around like there is no tomorrow. If Bush had lost and nearly all the voting errors were on the Republican side, you would all be in favor of something like this, period, so don't insult the collective intelligence of this board by claiming otherwise in anyway. In fact, stop even making this about Bush vs Kerry. That's over. This is about America not having respect in the world vs America having respect in the world. Of course, most of these same conservatives were the same people who didn't give a shit what the rest of the world thought when we went into Iraq in the first place, so, go figure[sarcastic].
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nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Oh, the drama.
Why did Boxer wait 10 weeks to make her 2-hour grandstand.
And if you are really physically sick, maybe Elvis should place appropriate warnings on the site.
Why did Boxer wait 10 weeks to make her 2-hour grandstand.
And if you are really physically sick, maybe Elvis should place appropriate warnings on the site.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
MrsSpringsteen said:Did Kerry say something about it? He's in Iraq
Just wondering nbc, not being sarcastic or whatnot
Kerry rebuffs protest of Ohio electors
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Thanks
I thought he was still in Iraq but maybe not
I thought he was still in Iraq but maybe not
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
joyfulgirl said:
Oh, OK, fair enough. Ohio is always going to be important in presidential elections.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
nbcrusader said:
Yes, he did, I even got an e-mail from him about this. He's not playing this game, he's getting on with his life.
OP
OP
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
strannix said:
i was going through the posts so fast in the mid-afternoon that while i knew immedately what you were talking about re: the 'poll tax", and in my head I was thinking....'no, basicaly voting IS a right...'- The Voting Privilages Act went right past me till now, when i have a bit more time to be here and read the posts...
for the snarky 'joke', stran, very good.....` 
:snicker: 
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OP
OP
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
cydewaze said:
amen, Amen, AMEN, AMENespecially your last paragraph!
OP
OP
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
MrsSpringsteen said:
some of them were able to finally vote. But others......
directed a all posters....
# Others were told when they got to the head of their line that they were in the wrong line or place that they had to go there, instead. And when they got to that other line/place they were told..."we don't know what you are talking about".
#Still others on touch screen machines they'd touch the proper space on-screen for Kerry, and it always came up Bush instead!
#and repeating again another real fact from earlier in thread ...
the precints nearby those precints thaT had a Republican majority had the proper ratio of machines /# voters via { i beleive} last election's number of voters.
Howeverin the Democratic majority precints- many of which were majority African-American areas they often had 50% less or even more missing voting machines than the amount they were supposed to have according to the same macines/ # of voters ratio formula WITHOUT having had a drop in the registered voting population in these districts.
that meant that people were deliberately stuck waiting on line for 6 - 8 - 10 hrs which is NOT normal, in almost ONLY Democrat-majority precincts with mostly majority African-American voters you ignore-the-facts right in front of you, conservatives { here, anyway and alot out there}.
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"I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio electors," the Massachusetts Democrat said. "Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."
OP
OP
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
verte76 said:
It's NOT a game , verte....
think about what you might lose under a regime that doesn't care much for people who are not-like-them.
At least more debate would of forced the mainstream media to pay attention more to the severe voter disruptions, disegenuousness and out right intimidation AND elecvtronic switcharoo fraud via the tally machines thAT went on in a bunch of states!
I wish I had some more of your levelheadedness & homour stran & deepBono's shades
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
If Boxer's "grandstanding" gets people to pay attention to what happened in Ohio, I'm all for it. It's not like it was getting a lot of coverage in the mainstream media.
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Diane L
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I commend Senator Barbara Boxer on her actions today. And I agree with cydewaze's post.
It is not whining to stand up and ask that all of the votes cast in an election be counted.
Please see "Fahrenheit 9/11" to see what happened in 2000, when no Senator stood up as Senator Boxer did today.
It is not whining to stand up and ask that all of the votes cast in an election be counted.
Please see "Fahrenheit 9/11" to see what happened in 2000, when no Senator stood up as Senator Boxer did today.
