Secret Service Probes Art Exhibit - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-14-2005, 10:30 PM   #61
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
...you weren't referring to the Patriot Act in the post I quoted there, you were referring to artwork. At least, that's what I read it as-if I misread your post, I apologize.
I have reiterated time and again that the stamps suggest it's patriotic to assassinate the president. Just to clarify.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
:Also, we aren't "smoking" anything. Perhaps the artist did express the idea of assassinating the president, but we're just trying to point out that things aren't always what they automatically appear to be, that art can have many different interpretations to it, too. You'll see support for assassination of the president, whereas someone else could see something totally different.
I don't know how it could've been any more obvious without a text such as "Kill Bush."

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
:And nobody here is saying they aren't disgusted by the concept of assassinations-if you'll recall, lots of people here said they thought that that was a dumb idea for a piece of artwork to begin with (assuming, of course, once again, that that's even what they were saying with that piece). It's just that while we may think the concept for the art piece is dumb, we still don't support it, along with art of any other kind, being censored. That doesn't comply with the concept of free speech that America prides itself on.
I would hope that everybody is at least somewhat disgusted with the thought. In case anybody did miss it, there was a man who plotted to assassinate the president in reality. Do I believe this kid has a right to free speech? Yes. Do I believe he is abusing it? Absolutely. I wouldn't want him to serve jail time, but it doesn't bother me at all that the Secret Service intervened with his work of hatred.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Well, censoring a piece of artwork sure wouldn't be the way to solve the problem. Sure, the artwork may be gone, but that doesn't mean the thoughts are gone, too. Get to the root of the problem, which may lie in the kid's mind, or in the policies of the government, or whatever. Don't go around censoring things-like I said, all that does is sweep the problem under the rug and make it look like it doesn't exist.
A small amount of censorship is worth preventing a tragedy, or at least reducing tension. There is a sense of security around it, although you never know what you prevented. You are correct that the thoughts would not be gone, but perhaps there are more constructive, if not less destructive ways to express them.
__________________

__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-14-2005, 10:59 PM   #62
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,255
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I have reiterated time and again that the stamps suggest it's patriotic to assassinate the president. Just to clarify.
Yeah. But how does that relate to the Patriot Act?

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I don't know how it could've been any more obvious without a text such as "Kill Bush."
Well, some people just see different things. You thought the message was pretty obvious, but there's always someone out there who will get a different interpretation.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I would hope that everybody is at least somewhat disgusted with the thought. In case anybody did miss it, there was a man who plotted to assassinate the president in reality. Do I believe this kid has a right to free speech? Yes. Do I believe he is abusing it? Absolutely. I wouldn't want him to serve jail time, but it doesn't bother me at all that the Secret Service intervened with his work of hatred.
Well, it does us, especially since, again, as BVS kept pointing out, all the Secret Service involvement did was prove the artist right. If someone actually has set out a plan to assassinate the president, yes, certainly deal with them. But as long as they're just expressing their dislike for an administration through art, there's no need to be going to all this trouble. Again, if the artist was that serious about killing Bush, I don't think they'd be wasting their time making mere little stamps about it, they'd instead be plotting the assassination.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
A small amount of censorship is worth preventing a tragedy, or at least reducing tension. There is a sense of security around it, although you never know what you prevented. You are correct that the thoughts would not be gone, but perhaps there are more constructive, if not less destructive ways to express them.
And once again, by censoring someone's views, all that does is make them angry and prone to finding bigger, perhaps more violent ways to get their views heard, so a tragedy could still occur that way, too. I don't really want that, so why not just let them express their views now and deal with the problem at hand. Will there be tension when that happens? Yes, no doubt about that-honesty can be very harsh sometimes. But nothing will get solved if we shut people up and don't let them say what's on their minds.

Angela
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 04-14-2005, 11:15 PM   #63
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Being disgusted with the thought of an assassination is NOT a religious concept.
Not what I said, at all!!!
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Those of you who deny that it's an assassination, would you mind passing whatever it is you're drinking over here? Come on! It couldn't be more obvious, and I sit here laughing at the irrational excuses of what it "could" be.
I gave you plenty of rational reasons of what this can mean. The fact that you can read the mind of the artist I find laughable. Do you know how much art has been incorrectly interpreted by well respected art critics throughout history...and you aren't even an art critic.


Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Would a liberal make a statement that the patriot act isn't doing enough to protect us? Use your head! A liberal would be more inclined to make a statement that it's an invasion of privacy.
See you are assuming he's a liberal. You don't even know that.

Use your head!!!
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-14-2005, 11:16 PM   #64
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Yeah. But how does that relate to the Patriot Act?
The patriot act according to the stamp is to assassinate the president.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Well, some people just see different things. You thought the message was pretty obvious, but there's always someone out there who will get a different interpretation.
I want a trip inside their heads and spend a day there.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Well, it does us, especially since, again, as BVS kept pointing out, all the Secret Service involvement did was prove the artist right. If someone actually has set out a plan to assassinate the president, yes, certainly deal with them. But as long as they're just expressing their dislike for an administration through art, there's no need to be going to all this trouble. Again, if the artist was that serious about killing Bush, I don't think they'd be wasting their time making mere little stamps about it, they'd instead be plotting the assassination.
Possibly, but who knows? They may be doing both, or, pushing hateful propaganda for whatever reasons we are not aware of.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
And once again, by censoring someone's views, all that does is make them angry and prone to finding bigger, perhaps more violent ways to get their views heard, so a tragedy could still occur that way, too. I don't really want that, so why not just let them express their views now and deal with the problem at hand. Will there be tension when that happens? Yes, no doubt about that-honesty can be very harsh sometimes. But nothing will get solved if we shut people up and don't let them say what's on their minds.
It's not necessarily censoring views, but drawing a line when the whole thing is ridiculous and raises potential for concern. The kid was crying for attention, which he got. Probably more than he bargained for. Believe it or not, I am fairly optimistic in a sense that I do have faith in others, and feel that there is good in everybody. Perhaps this artist is capable of doing something much bigger than the low he sunk to. From time to time, I get flared with others, but If I let it cool off rather than telling them to die a horrible death, it hurts nobody.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-14-2005, 11:19 PM   #65
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I gave you plenty of rational reasons of what this can mean. The fact that you can read the mind of the artist I find laughable.
Not as laughable as the denial of such an obvious expression of bitter hatred and malicious intentions to stir tension. Go ahead and laugh, so you don't have to hear me laugh.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
See you are assuming he's a liberal. You don't even know that.
What is he, a conservative? Explain how he is not a liberal.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-14-2005, 11:26 PM   #66
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Not as laughable as the denial of such an obvious expression of bitter hatred and malicious intentions to stir tension. Go ahead and laugh, so you don't have to hear me laugh.
You say it's obvious but that's due to your bias. You know nothing about the artist.


Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

What is he, a conservative? Explain how he is not a liberal.
I already said. This could easily be a comment on how the patriot isn't going to work and the president he loves will be in harms risk. Maybe he wants a stonger Patriot Act. THE FACT IS YOU DON'T KNOW, STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU DO.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-14-2005, 11:52 PM   #67
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You say it's obvious but that's due to your bias. You know nothing about the artist.

I already said. This could easily be a comment on how the patriot isn't going to work and the president he loves will be in harms risk. Maybe he wants a stonger Patriot Act. THE FACT IS YOU DON'T KNOW, STOP PRETENDING LIKE YOU DO.
"The president he loves." You couldn't be further off-key. I don't know how you can miss it. “Axis of Evil: The Secret History of Sin.” was the title for the presentation, which was filled with punches at Ashcroft, Bush, and co. Would that be a title for anything BUT a liberal gathering? I'm not pretending anything. Your irrationality is dead meat, and holds no justification whatsoever. There is no sense in fogging up the obvious.



Quote:
Brown said the agents were most interested in Chicago artist Al Brandtner's work titled "Patriot Act," which depicted a sheet of mock 37-cent red, white and blue stamps showing a revolver pointed at Bush's head.
[/b]
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #68
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
You're right you know the exact intent of the artist and all of us pot smoking liberals should be locked up for treason.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:48 AM   #69
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
Local Time: 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You're right you know the exact intent of the artist and all of us pot smoking liberals should be locked up for treason.
AMEN!
__________________
Abomb-baby is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 09:54 AM   #70
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 06:04 PM
This is taking it too far, in my opinion. You don't raid an art exhibit in a free country, period. You do that in a police state. In the former Soviet Union, art exhibitions were frequently busted for "objectionable content" and "anti-socialist sentiments".
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:01 AM   #71
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You're right you know the exact intent of the artist and all of us pot smoking liberals should be locked up for treason.
I'm a little disappointed in your counter-argument. If you believe in protecting defamation on any level, that's fine. I don't have to agree. But first you bring me out and claim "I hate anything liberal", then you deny that the exhibit is liberal. I made it clear - if you read all of my posts - that I don't think the artist should serve jail time.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:13 AM   #72
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I'm a little disappointed in your counter-argument. If you believe in protecting defamation on any level, that's fine. I don't have to agree.
I don't believe in censorship at any degree. I'm not sure how defamation got brought into this.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

...then you deny that the exhibit is liberal.
I haven't denied anything. Why do you have such a hard time reading my posts. All I've said is there is no way to read the exact intent of the artist. There are several different ways this can be interpreted. That's all, I don't believe in labeling something hate or talk about censorship when you don't even know the true intent and thought behind the painting. A painting unlike a film, or song, or a play lacks context and leaves a lot more up to interpretation, to state anything as obvious is ridiculous.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:14 AM   #73
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby


AMEN!
Glad you're bringing so much to this forum.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:36 AM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,129
Local Time: 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
A painting unlike a film, or song, or a play lacks context and leaves a lot more up to interpretation, to state anything as obvious is ridiculous.
Anything? Why, in that case, we all know nothing.
__________________
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 04-15-2005, 10:38 AM   #75
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,645
Local Time: 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Anything? Why, in that case, we all know nothing.
When it comes to art...
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com