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Old 07-22-2005, 08:55 AM   #1
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"Second Parent"

My father wasn't what I consider to be what a father should be, maybe he should have been called 'second parent"..This is just so wrong. A loving man is a FATHER whether it's biological or not, same as a loving woman is a MOTHER biological or not. This is what you will get if Romney becomes President one day. He's so out of touch he doesn't even know what the Boston subway fare is..


Birth certificate policy draws fire
Change affects same-sex couples
By Michael Levenson, Globe Correspondent | July 22, 2005

Governor Mitt Romney's administration is advising hospitals to cross out the word father on birth certificates for the children of same-sex couples and instead write the phrase ''second parent," angering gay and lesbian advocates and city and town clerks who warn that the altered documents could be legally questionable.

Eric Fehrnstrom, Romney's spokesman, said yesterday that the Department of Public Health, which the governor oversees, has been has been advising hospitals to alter the documents since last year, when the first children were born to same-sex married couples were born.

Fehrnstrom insisted that the practice is legal. But city and town clerks, who register and store birth records, argue that the cross-outs on the birth certificates could make them open to challenges by passport agents, foreign governments, and other officials. They have repeatedly asked Romney to create a new birth certificate for the children of same-sex parents that would include gender-neutral nomenclature.

But Romney has resisted, arguing that the Legislature must first pass a law authorizing such a change.

''The fact remains that this is a document that could be questioned in years to come," said Linda E. Hutchenrider, Barnstable town clerk and past president of the Massachusetts Town Clerks' Association. She sent a letter in October asking Romney to formally revise the birth certificates for the children of same-sex couples.

So far, only lesbian couples have been affected, advocates said.

Data from the Department of Public Health show there were 61 children born to married same-sex couples in 2004, out of approximately 80,000 children born in Massachusetts. This year, the number stood at 75 by July, suggesting a growing phenomenon as some same-sex couples enter their second year of marriage.

''I don't care whether there is one child in the Commonwealth or 500 children in the Commonwealth affected by this," said Hutchenrider. ''They should not have a birth certificate that has crosses on it. They should be allowed to have a birth certificates that really looks valid."

The controversy is the latest standoff between the Romney administration and city and town clerks over how to handle the wave of new documentation emerging from the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts in May 2004. The practice of changing the birth certificates was reported yesterday in the Patriot Ledger of Quincy.

In her letter to Romney, Hutchenrider said the first birth certificate she received from a hospital that had delivered the child of a same-sex couple had the word father crossed out with an X and an asterisk written by its side. At the bottom of the birth certificate, a hospital official had written second parent, Hutchenrider said.

Official birth certificates ''have never been allowed with strikeouts," Hutchenrider said in her letter to Romney. ''That calls the integrity of the certificate into question."

In an interview yesterday, she said: ''There are many places in this world where a child will need a birth certificate and just to allow it to appear as it does, I find it distasteful."

In February, Romney, on a political trip to South Carolina, told a Republican group that he was dismayed by the clerks' effort to have birth certificates revised for the children of gay couples. ''Some [same-sex couples] are actually having children born to them," Romney said.

''It's not right on paper; it's not right in fact," he said. ''Every child has a right to a mother and a father."

Gay couples and their children protested the remarks outside the governor's office, accusing Romney of exploiting them for political gain.

Yesterday, Fehrnstrom said the governor believes that hand-altered birth certificates are valid.

''As long as they're recorded, they're valid," Fehrnstrom said.

He argued that the Supreme Judicial Court ruling that legalized same-sex marriage put the onus on the Legislature to change the birth certificates.

Fehrnstrom cited a passage in the SJC decision that postponed the start of gay marriages for 180 days from when the ruling was issued in November 2003 ''to permit the Legislature to take such action as it may deem appropriate in light of this opinion."

Nevertheless, the administration did not wait for the Legislature to act when it rewrote marriage certificates for gay couples to say ''Party A" and ''Party B," gay rights advocates said.

''There's no action that needs to be taken for the Romney administration to make birth certificates reflect the nature of Massachusetts families," said Michele Granda, staff attorney for Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders. As the birth certificates are now, Granda said, ''they are valid documents, but they raise unnecessary questions for one segment of the population, and that's not right."

Fehrnstrom argued that the administration's decision to rewrite marriage certificates and not birth certificates was consistent with the court ruling on same-sex marriage, known as Goodridge v. Department of Public Health.

''The Goodridge decision addressed the issue of marriage, and the case with the marriage certificates goes to the heart of the court's ruling," he said. ''With respect to any ancillary issues, we are proceeding cautiously in the absence of legislative guidance."
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:30 PM   #2
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Why are people so stupid? Argh! Also, why exactly are government officials feeling a need to stick their noses into this sort of thing again?

I agree with you, MrsSpringsteen-as long as the guy takes care of the kid and loves the kid and will raise it well and all that good stuff, he's a father. Period. End of story. Nothing else matters.

Angela
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:32 PM   #3
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hey, Mitt ...

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Old 07-22-2005, 12:38 PM   #4
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Haha, I'll second that, Irvine .

Angela
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:57 PM   #5
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How would you prefer the birth certificates to read?

seems the easiest way would be like this...

Mother and Mother

or

Father and Father
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Old 07-22-2005, 01:12 PM   #6
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Irvine- not assuming you know this simply because you are gay, but I am wondering if you have seen any research on how children of same sex marraige adjust in a society dominated by heterosexual family systems. I can imagine that children with same sex parents may feel "different" (for lack of a better word)due to the large majority of their friends having heterosexual parents, having heterosexual teachers or coaches, movies and tv with mostly heterosexual families, etc.

I am not asking this question as any sort of criticism of gays adopting children or having a child through artifical insemination. I am just honestly curious.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
Irvine- not assuming you know this simply because you are gay, but I am wondering if you have seen any research on how children of same sex marraige adjust in a society dominated by heterosexual family systems. I can imagine that children with same sex parents may feel "different" (for lack of a better word)due to the large majority of their friends having heterosexual parents, having heterosexual teachers or coaches, movies and tv with mostly heterosexual families, etc.

I am not asking this question as any sort of criticism of gays adopting children or having a child through artifical insemination. I am just honestly curious.

no problem.

check these articles out:

http://www.reason.com/0508/fe.js.all.shtml

http://slate.msn.com/id/2097048/

http://www.apa.org/pi/l&gbib.html

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
How would you prefer the birth certificates to read?

seems the easiest way would be like this...

Mother and Mother

or

Father and Father
Or should the sperm donor be listed as "Father"?

In our ever evolving matrix of society relationships, broader terms may be necessary?
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Or should the sperm donor be listed as "Father"?

In our ever evolving matrix of society relationships, broader terms may be necessary?


is father a biological or social relationship?
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




is father a biological or social relationship?
Actually what is the legal definition of father, as used when placing the parents names on a birth certificate. Is it the biological father or the person who intends to act as the child's father regardless of biological relationship?
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:41 PM   #11
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Here's another pressing question: Is Mitt Romney the biggest idiot in the US right now?
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:59 PM   #12
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Well, the state of Massachusetts must be heaven on earth, without a single pressing issue whatsoever if this is what its political leadership is spending their time on.
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Old 07-22-2005, 04:23 PM   #13
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Again, to remind people, Massachusetts is, de facto, ruled by its Legislature, which has been, at least, 2/3 Democratic for a decade now. The governor has, essentially, been rendered a figurehead, so Romney is a bit cranky that all of his vetoes get overridden.

On the other hand, that should also mean that the Legislature should be able to make and change all the laws it wants, so we should be putting the pressure on the Legislature to change their laws, including a repeal of the 1913 law forbidding marriages that home states would not recognize. After all, it is well within their power, and there's no worry about Romney standing in their way.

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Old 07-22-2005, 08:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
hey, Mitt ...

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........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
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Brilliant!
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Or should the sperm donor be listed as "Father"?
No. If this was true my birth certificate would have my birth parents names on it and not my real parent's.
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