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Old 05-31-2004, 01:18 PM   #31
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I am not certain about common sense prevailing.

What is the name of the book?
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Old 05-31-2004, 01:28 PM   #32
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the book is the future of human nature
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Old 05-31-2004, 01:51 PM   #33
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Another book which is somewhat related to this is Francis Fukuyama's Our Posthuman Future: Consequences of the Biotechnology Revolution. I definitely don't agree with every word, but it's certainly an interesting read.
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Old 05-31-2004, 05:01 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
If people are going to abort for one defect, with the development of future technology, they may decide that there are other "defects" that are potential "hardships" on the family.
if society would develop into something where people would start thinking like this then when they are trying to have children then I'm 98% sure that technology isnt the problem but the human race is
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Old 05-31-2004, 05:20 PM   #35
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Agree with Salome - it's silly to blame the technology.

Also, Dread, you need to be more specific wrt defect. Are you referring to a genetic defect, because in that case, it is a very easy definition to make. There are several ways you can be genetically deficient (I know, because I have one diagnosed genetic disorder and another very rare genetic disorder is suspected, but I'm not getting my test results back for 4 more weeks). For a genetic disorder, you have to have either a mutation in the coding portion of your DNA which will give rise to a defective gene product (ie. a protein). The defect can either be functional (ie. the protein doesn't work) or expressive (it is not expressed at appropriate levels) or immunodeficient (inability of self-antibodies to undergo negative selection). This is my field and I can go on and on about it, LOL.

Because I work in the research institute of one of the top 3 pediatric hospitals in the world, I can tell you that there are many genetic disorders so severe that the child is essentially born to die. They will never speak, never develop thinking skills and die in agony in the first months or years of life. I would not pass judgment on parents, because while a cleft pallate is not the end of the world, there are disorders which are. There are also disorders which seriously endanger the life of the mother and in that case, I can place no blame on her choosing an abortion. Where do you draw the line? Let the individual make the choice for themselves. If a person can have an abortion because they can't financially afford a child, or because they don't want a biracial child, or because they don't want a 4th child, or because they are homeless, then how is this any different? If you want to bring a child into this world who will die in 2 weeks, then that is up to you, just like it's up to someone else not to do so.
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Old 05-31-2004, 06:22 PM   #36
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I will admit that my opinion here is extremely bias because I don't believe in ANY form of abortion for any reason. I think when a couple decides to have a child, part of that decision is also accepting the risk that the child might have some physical or mental defect. Yeah, it sucks, but that's how life works. Nothing is 100% guaranteed and you have to consider that. I serisously cannot fathom wanting to become a mother and then wanting to kill the fetus because it would be handicapped. If couples are so self-centered that they can't love a child with a handicap, then why don't they just adopt? There are so many unwanted and orphaned children in this world that need help. Why not go to an orphanage and pick exactly what you want if it's just a big issue to have a boy vs. a girl, or a kid that's a certain size or color or IQ....
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Old 05-31-2004, 06:44 PM   #37
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If a cleft pallett is considered a defect......

then what is to stop someone from defining ADD or ADHD or Bi-polar disorder as a defect?

I do not need to be specific. That is why I said "defect" in quotes.
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Old 05-31-2004, 06:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
If couples are so self-centered that they can't love a child with a handicap, then why don't they just adopt?
I think that to assume that such a decision would be due to the couple being "self-centered" is far too simplistic. There are so many factors which could influence a couple's decision if they were in this situation. I also think that deciding to have an abortion is an agonising decision for a couple to have to make and I don't believe that deciding to abort a fetus which would be born with severe disabilities indicates that the parents wouldn't have loved the child.
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Old 05-31-2004, 07:13 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
And no, cleft palates are a ludicrous reason for aborting an unborn child.
I completely agree. But it's not as ludicrous as eliminating the child because you "aren't ready" or "can't afford it yet" or "my boyfriend is mad."


As you can probably tell by that post, I am very opposed to abortion for selfish and convenience reasons or using it for birth control. I'm torn on the Down's Syndrome though. A lot of those kids suffer, have health problems and are an emotional as well as financial burden on their families. I do know families who have them and call the "special" and love them and consider them a blessing. Then you have the types who will dump them in a state orphanage at taxpayer expense because they can't deal with it. So even though I am mainly anti- abortion I can understand that to some extent, though I can't really condone it. But I understand, Dreadsox, what you mean at where do you draw the line? What will be 'good' and 'wrong' reasons to have the child killed? You can't leave it up to morals and conscience, just as you can't do that with any law. It is upsetting. It's hard. If you want to get really extreme, I know a woman who believes all 'imperfect' children should be euthanized at birth because they are a burden on society and the school systems.
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Old 05-31-2004, 07:25 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I think that to assume that such a decision would be due to the couple being "self-centered" is far too simplistic. There are so many factors which could influence a couple's decision if they were in this situation. I also think that deciding to have an abortion is an agonising decision for a couple to have to make and I don't believe that deciding to abort a fetus which would be born with severe disabilities indicates that the parents wouldn't have loved the child.
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Old 05-31-2004, 07:37 PM   #41
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It can mean whatever. That's the beauty of "choice." They may never look back, or they may be tortured by it until they die and beyond. But that is their choice, and it is not my place to judge.

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Kewl. Thats what I was hoping you ment.
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Old 05-31-2004, 07:51 PM   #42
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I agree with you Dread - another example of a 'slippery slope'. But then again I am sick about all the perfectly healthy babies that are thrown away as well.
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Old 05-31-2004, 08:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I do not need to be specific. That is why I said "defect" in quotes.

Maybe you don't need to be, but the scientific community is quite specific in defining genetic defects.
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Old 05-31-2004, 08:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Again, the mothers will have to deal with their conscience someday.
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Old 05-31-2004, 08:29 PM   #45
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Maybe you don't need to be, but the scientific community is quite specific in defining genetic defects.
I think you are looking at it from a scientific standpoint, however, if people are beginning to look at things like clubbed feet, or cleft pallates....there is something wrong and I see nothing that could stop science from develping future tests to determine other "defects" that people may not want in their lives.

I am not saying this to insult anyone who may have dealt with this very personal issue. I am looking at it as a misuse of future technology to seek the "perfect child".
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