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Old 05-31-2004, 09:19 AM   #16
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Who defines the "DEFECTS"?????

Is Bipolarism a "DEFECT"? IS ADD and DEFECT? IS ADHD a DEFECT?



All of these affect the "Lifestyle" of people.....
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Old 05-31-2004, 09:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

If people are going to abort for one defect, with the development of future technology, they may decide that there are other "defects" that are potential "hardships" on the family.
I disagree. Some defects are hardships on both the child and the family.

Cleft palate will always be a stupid reason for aborting a child. I can not imagine society going that far down the toilet that abortion of children with minor defects would be acceptable. I dont believe people are that fundamentally mean.

It would also be a heart wrenching decision for the parents, particularly the mother, to terminate any pregnancy. I dont honestly believe women make these decisions lightly.
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Old 05-31-2004, 09:23 AM   #18
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... not matter how keen you may or may not be to paint it as such.
Also note it was not 'you' as in you specifically. Blame the inventor of the English language for not differentiating between a generic you and you.


I was not missing your point either Dread. I was responding to how it seemed that Downs is being described as something not worthy of the abortion option. Perhaps for you personally, and many, it isn't. Anyway. You want to know where we will draw the line? Do you think society will not be able to make rational decisions on the whole? We will not seperate medical risk from a world where we have made-to-order children?

When we become comfortable with cleft palates and other relatively superficial defects being the cause of abortion en mass, we will be in trouble.
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Old 05-31-2004, 09:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli

It would also be a heart wrenching decision for the parents, particularly the mother, to terminate any pregnancy. I dont honestly believe women make these decisions lightly.
I agree with you

But I think that if people are willing to claim ADHD as a severe disability and want social security benefits.....

and

if people are willing to abort for a cleft pallate I believe eventually anything is possible.
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Old 05-31-2004, 09:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

if people are willing to abort for a cleft pallate I believe eventually anything is possible.
I have more faith in mankind than that. Reading that article I think there were only 2 people who aborted because of cleft palate. 2 people in how many? Truckloads. Most of the rest of England obviously didnt have an issue with it and gave birth to their cleft babes.

There will always be weirdos. I dont believe this will become an issue.

I think the bigger issue in the future is people not having any children at all.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:11 AM   #21
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There was a lot of discussion about this in the media when it came up several months ago. The key issue is that this isn't actually a debate about whether it's ever acceptable for a woman to choose abortion because the child will have a cleft palate. It's a debate about whether cleft palate qualifies as a disability which means the woman can choose to have an abortion later in pregnancy.

The 1967 abortion act places certain restrictions on abortions performed up to 24 weeks, but these restrictions effectively mean that abortion is available on demand up until 24 weeks. (Of course that's ignoring the fact that many women find that their GP tries to stop them from having an abortion because they [the GP] object to it.) After 24 weeks the restrictions are more strict and one of the reasons a woman can have an abortion is that the baby would be born with a severe disability. So the actual question isn't whether it's okay for a woman to have an abortion if the child will have a cleft palate, but whether it's okay for her to have an abortion after 24 weeks for this reason.

Anyway. That was just one long ramble, lol.

I think the two issues raised in this thread are quite separate. If you consider the impact that being born with a cleft palate and being born with Down Syndrome will have on a person's life, it's clear that the two aren't comparable.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:19 AM   #22
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You're legally able to abort perfectly healthy children with no abnormalities too. It probably happens more often than the children with genetic abnormalities.

The mothers will have to deal with their conscience someday.

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Old 05-31-2004, 10:21 AM   #23
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I dont believe a cleft palate is a severe disability. In Australia an unborn fetus that dies after 20 weeks is issued with a death certificate ie is considered a child. IMHO there would have to be a bloody good reason for aborting a child so late, and I dont believe cleft palate is that reason.

Nor is it a disability (according to me) that should warrant social security. In an ideal world the government should pay for the corrective surgery but thats it.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:24 AM   #24
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Is anyone here worried about medical advances that would allow people to determine genetic traits well in advance?
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
You're legally able to abort perfectly healthy children with no abnormalities too. It probably happens more often than the children with genetic abnormalities.

The mothers will have to deal with their conscience someday.

Melon
Without derailing Dreads thread. What about women who are raped and conceive perfectly healthy children but are emotionally incapable of caring that child to term?
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:31 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Is anyone here worried about medical advances that would allow people to determine genetic traits well in advance?
I think society would amend itself pretty quickly if that happens. It would only take one generation of all children being born doctors and scholars before all the toilets broke and we remembered the need for plumbers.

Have you ever read Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:35 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Without derailing Dreads thread. What about women who are raped and conceive perfectly healthy children but are emotionally incapable of caring that child to term?
Again, the mothers will have to deal with their conscience someday.

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Old 05-31-2004, 10:37 AM   #28
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Originally posted by melon


Again, the mothers will have to deal with their conscience someday.

Melon
Okay, as long as you dont mean that in a mean way.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:39 AM   #29
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Originally posted by beli
Okay, as long as you dont mean that in a mean way.
It can mean whatever. That's the beauty of "choice." They may never look back, or they may be tortured by it until they die and beyond. But that is their choice, and it is not my place to judge.

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Old 05-31-2004, 11:21 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Is anyone here worried about medical advances that would allow people to determine genetic traits well in advance?
better humans

jurgen habermas also made this issue the subject of his latest book.

there is definitely concern dread. it is a domain void of social norms-in time they will be fostered and challenged. there will likely be contraventions, but sense will prevail.
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