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Old 05-27-2008, 09:47 PM   #16
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If believing there is only one creator God in this entire universe who came to this planet as a human to talk to us about life makes me narrow minded, then I guess I am a narrow minded clown.
I think what BVS means if God could create this planet, why not others if the universe is so vast?
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:50 PM   #17
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ar·ro·gant
adj.
1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others



If believing there is only one creator God in this entire universe who came to this planet as a human to talk to us about life makes me narrow minded, then I guess I am a narrow minded clown.


Why not dance



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Old 05-27-2008, 09:54 PM   #18
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there are still plenty of us here

that could learn plenty from the teachings of "Jesus from Nazareth".
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
If believing there is only one creator God in this entire universe who came to this planet as a human to talk to us about life makes me narrow minded, then I guess I am a narrow minded clown.
BBC NEWS | Europe | Vatican says aliens could exist

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Vatican says aliens could exist
By David Willey
BBC News, Rome

The Pope's chief astronomer says that life on Mars cannot be ruled out.

Writing in the Vatican newspaper, the astronomer, Father Gabriel Funes, said intelligent beings created by God could exist in outer space.

Father Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome, is a respected scientist who collaborates with universities around the world.

The search for forms of extraterrestrial life, he says, does not contradict belief in God.

The official Vatican newspaper headlines his article 'Aliens Are My Brother'.

'Free from sin'

Just as there are multiple forms of life on earth, so there could exist intelligent beings in outer space created by God. And some aliens could even be free from original sin, he speculates.

Asked about the Catholic Church's condemnation four centuries ago of the Italian astronomer and physicist, Galileo, Father Funes diplomatically says mistakes were made, but it is time to turn the page and look towards the future.

Science and religion need each other, and many astronomers believe in God, he assures readers.

To strengthen its scientific credentials, the Vatican is organising a conference next year to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of the author of the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin.
It's an interesting stance quite reminiscent of J.R.R. Tolkien, a self-professed conservative Catholic, 50 years prior.

Quote:
Tolkien understood Eru ["Eru Ilúvatar" is the name of God, the single omnipotent creator in Tolkien's legendarium] not as a fictional deity but as a name in a fictional language for the actual monotheistic God of Christian faith, although in a fictional context. A clear explanation of this appears in a draft of a letter that Tolkien wrote in 1954 to Peter Hastings, manager of the Newman Bookshop (a Catholic bookshop in Oxford). In the letter, Tolkien, a devout Catholic, defended the non-orthodox portrayal of God (Eru) in his writing as rightly within the scope of his legendarium, as an exploration of the infinite "potential variety" of God.

Regarding the possibility of reincarnation of Elves, Hastings had written:

"God has not used that device in any of the creations of which we have knowledge, and it seems to me to be stepping beyond the position of a sub-creator to produce it as an actual working thing, because a sub-creator, when dealing with the relations between creator and created, should use those channels which he knows the creator to have used already."

Tolkien's reply contains an explanation of his view of the relation of (divine) Creation to (human) sub-creation:

"We differ entirely about the nature of the relation of sub-creation to Creation. I should have said that liberation "from the channels the creator is known to have used already" is the fundamental function of "sub-creation", a tribute to the infinity of His potential variety [...] I am not a metaphysician; but I should have thought it a curious metaphysic — there is not one but many, indeed potentially innumerable ones — that declared the channels known (in such a finite corner as we have any inkling of) to have been used, are the only possible ones, or efficacious, or possibly acceptable to and by Him!"

Hastings had also criticised the description of Tom Bombadil by Goldberry: "He is", saying that this seemed to imply that Bombadil was God.

Tolkien replied to this:

"As for Tom Bombadil, I really do think you are being too serious, besides missing the point. [...] You rather remind me of a Protestant relation who to me objected to the (modern) Catholic habit of calling priests Father, because the name father belonged only to the First Person."
It's quite interesting how sensible they can be, when unencumbered by nonsensical medieval tradition. It reminds me why I'll probably never switch religions, in spite of my grudges with the Vatican.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:43 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
ar·ro·gant
adj.
1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others



If believing there is only one creator God in this entire universe who came to this planet as a human to talk to us about life makes me narrow minded, then I guess I am a narrow minded clown.


Why not dance
Thanks for definition.

You missed my point entirely. If God created the entire universe, what makes you think your species is the only one worth heaven? Why not martians? If you honestly believe your God is all powerful then why could "he" have not created more?
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
If believing there is only one creator God in this entire universe who came to this planet as a human to talk to us about life makes me narrow minded, then I guess I am a narrow minded clown.

This is such a tiresome response to anything you don't feel like discussing. Why did you even start the thread then?

Of course, you do this all the time, and we all still take the bait.
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:03 AM   #22
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It's a god-awful small affair I have to say....

Agree with a wanderer's points here.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:31 AM   #23
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this thread reminded me of one of my favorite kinda-spooky stories.

on June 27, 1982, Steven Spielberg was invited to the White House to give a special screening of "E.T." to the Reagans and a few guests (Sandra Day O'Connor was among them). the movie went well, Nancy cried at the end, and afterwards, Ronnie himself came up to Spielberg, told him he had made a classic film, and then said, and i quote, "You know, I bet there aren't six people in this room who know just how true this is."

love it.
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