Sd#344

[the iron horse]

Sunday Dispatch #344


We were born to mothers who smoked and drank
Our cribs were covered in lead-based paint
No childproof lids
No seatbelts in cars
Rode bikes with no helmets
and still here we are
Still here we are

We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved
Had three TV channels you got up to change
No video games and no satellite
All we had were friends and they were outside
Playing outside

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

School always started the same everyday
the pledge of allegiance, then someone would pray
not every kid made the team when they tried
We got disappointed but that was alright

We turned out alright

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

No bottled water
We'd drink from a garden hose
And every Sunday,
All the stores were closed.

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

It was a different world


~Bucky Covington

 

[DrTeeth]

Heh, I pretty much disagree with everything this guy is saying. The mere thought of school prayer and pledges of allegiance makes me want to throw up. And I sincerely question the sanity of everyone who's looking back with nostalgia on smoking and drinking mothers, cars without seatbelts and getting hit with a belt.

 

[maycocksean]

These lyrics or poem or whatever it is could be printed in the dictionary next to the word "Romanticize"

First off, not all of us were born to mothers who smoked and drank. I know I wasn't. And neither was my mother. And neither was her mother.

The lines about childproof lids, seatbelts, and no helmets and yet "here we are" is a paen to luck and nothing else. For every person who is "still here" to nod their heads to this song, there were kids who choked, people thrown through the windshields, and folks who got their heads smashed open. They are most certainly NOT "still here." If you want to take some kind of libertarian stance that there should be no seatbelt and helmet laws, then fine. But don't romanticize a time when such a safety devices weren't even an OPTION for those who might have wanted them.

And lets talk about why you can't drink from a garden hose anymore? How much you want to bet this Bucky Covington isn't particular supportive of the types of environmental protection efforts that would have ensured that drinking from a garden hose would still be quite safe.

And this every Sunday the stores would close?!? Well, I'll tell you I find that pretty scary. Back in those "good old days" members of my church were often in trouble with the law because they refused to work on Saturday or DID work on the Sunday. Members of my church believe that God calls us to observe the seventh-day Sabbath so for us "Sunday laws"? Bad idea. Of course we would NEVER force our Sabbath-observance on anyone else or ask that it be mandated by law. I find it horrifying that other Christians apparently have no qualms about doing so.

This whole song illustrates what I think what is happening with a large generally, white and Christian group of people in this country. There is a sense that they are losing their hegemony in this country. I can tell you you won't find many black folks looking back longingly to the same time period you can bet this song is romanticizing. Fighting to retain your exclusive cultural control over the country is certainly understandable. But there's nothing remotely Christian about it. And nothing romantic either.

 

[Ormus]

These lyrics or poem or whatever it is could be printed in the dictionary next to the word "Romanticize"

You basically wrote the post I was going to write, which would even have included the word "romanticize."

But, frankly, I wasn't in the mood for a fight, so I'm glad that you said it for me!

 

[martha]

I can tell you you won't find many black folks looking back longingly to the same time period you can bet this song is romanticizing.

This is usually my thought as well when people start in about the "good old days."

 

[anitram]

This is usually my thought as well when people start in about the "good old days."

Me too.

Along with so many other minority groups. Hell, women weren't allowed at Yale until 1969! Pardon me if I'm not longing for those days.

 

[BVS]

Sunday Dispatch #344



Still here we are

Not all of us, many didn't make it, should we write a romanticized poem about their deaths?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Do what I do, bvs, and that is parade around emergency rooms of your local hospital where people are in critical conditions from lack of seatbelts or alcohol, and scream at them with glee:
"This is the price of your freedom, little buddy!"

It's a great conversation starter.

 

[BVS]

 

[verte76]

In the "good old days" African Americans didn't have the vote around here, everything was segregated, the Klan was beating the hell out of civil rights demonstrators..........yeah.

 

[the iron horse]

I'm just a stupid Libertarian I guess.

Not ready to bow to the Nanny State...

just searching for a wooden seated swing.

Playgrounds are so whimpy now

 

[A_Wanderer]

Thus proving the rule that the only kind of freedom is the freedom to do stupid things. Libertarianism is not hedonistic self-destruction, in fact I doubt that those types would last very long in a free society.

I hate puritanical wankers who insist that people shouldn't be allowed to smoke or drink but that isn't going to make me take up smoking to protest them. Love the freedom, not the action.

 

[BVS]

I'm just a stupid Libertarian I guess.

Not ready to bow to the Nanny State...

just searching for a wooden seated swing.

Playgrounds are so whimpy now

So are you just going to ignore the points that were brought up?

 

[A_Wanderer]

It's quite inconcequential, this poster believes in freedom as far as it is convenient for themselves and finds fault when others must cover their own arses (try building an unsafe playground and not getting sued) or excercise common sense (carcinogenic cigarettes are not good for you and alcohol will damage a foetus). And the points on the role of religion and closing stores most certainly breach religious and economic liberties.

I just think that it's totally full of shit that libertarianism on this board gets defined as this sort of hedonistic trash, it actually makes the regulatory case that much easier by showing how without state control people will self destruct. A state is needed to maintain civil society, I think that the needs of most people demands state interventions at the expense of liberties (if you have universal healthcare then ilicit and harmful drugs are a bad thing for everybody) and I think that the role of libertarian groups is to fight against the unwarranted excesses of state intervention in the knowledge that the centre will never ever be willing to give up it's treasured securities for liberties. Also packing into this is enough common sense to wear a seatbelt, not jepordise other peoples lives by doing dangerous things, be supportive of freedom (namely liberal secularism, sexual liberties, free speech) and to look forward to the future.

 

[martha]

I just think that it's totally full of shit that libertarianism on this board gets defined as this sort of hedonistic trash,

I don't think libertarianism is hedonistic trash at all. It's a philosophy that ignores basic human nature and history. That's all.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Freedom and individualism become opposed to human nature how?

I think that the success of the liberal democracy is a testament to how well libertarian ideals mesh with human nature.

 

[deep]

"Bucky" Covington III (born November 8, 1977) is an American Country Music Singer. He originally came to fame when he arrived at 8th place on the 5th season of American Idol. In early 2006, he was the 5th contestant to be eliminated from the final 12.

I guess these are the lyrics to Bucky's single.

They are a lot like something I saw, that was circulating, and attributed to George Carlin. Carlin said it was not his creation.



I think it is fair to call it "romantacized".

I think it is unfair to suggest that Bucky or Iron Horse are longing for the good ol days of segregation.

 

[martha]

I think it is unfair to suggest that Bucky or Iron Horse are longing for the good ol days of segregation.

Maybe. But when the hell were the "good old days"? And who were they good for?

 

[maycocksean]

I think it is unfair to suggest that Bucky or Iron Horse are longing for the good ol days of segregation.

My earlier statement was not to suggest that Iron Horse misses segregation. My point was that it's only a certain group of people that you typically find longing for the "good old days"--the people for whom those days were good. And those days weren't good for everybody.

 

[BVS]

I just think that it's totally full of shit that libertarianism on this board gets defined as this sort of hedonistic trash, it actually makes the regulatory case that much easier by showing how without state control people will self destruct.

Where have you seen FYM paint libertarianism this way?

I've seen this poster do that, but where have you seen this board doing that?

 

[A_Wanderer]

In their response to this particular poster.

 

[maycocksean]

In their response to this particular poster.

I don't recall maligning Libertarianism in this thread. I don't have many opinions one way or the other on Libertarianism. I do recall saying that something about the "Libertarian idea" of not having seatbelt and helmet laws. Was that a misrepresentation?

 

[BVS]

In their response to this particular poster.

Well then I think you have greatly misunderstood. Look back at those paticular posts and you'll see a very misrepresented idea of Libertarianism.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I'll agree on that.

 

[financeguy]

I don't think libertarianism is hedonistic trash at all. It's a philosophy that ignores basic human nature and history. That's all.

How did you arrive at this remarkable theory?

 

[deep]

here is a definition

Libertarianism is a political philosophy maintaining that all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, provided they allow others the same liberty.

and on another point

reading through this threat

I don't understand some of the more passionate replies

there was not a strong case made for anything like:

these are terrible times today

let's return to the past


it seems like it is more difficult to post a
contrarian opinion in this forum

and I do know I am guilty
of writing heavy-handed replies myself

I do try and evaluate the need,
especially if several people have already gone in that direction