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Old 02-21-2007, 02:39 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Irvine511




but maybe we wouldn't want an ideal.

ideals are, by definition, exclusionary.

i don't think i'd be allowed in your country, AEON. is that correct?
why would I not want you in my country? Are you an Islamic Fascist?
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:15 PM   #77
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why would I not want you in my country? Are you an Islamic Fascist?


i'm a gay. does that correspond to your notion of judeo-christian values?
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #78
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i'm a gay. does that correspond to your notion of judeo-christian values?
No. But I don't see the gay movement going around cutting off heads.
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Old 02-21-2007, 03:59 PM   #79
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No. But I don't say the gay movement going around cutting off heads.


so where do your Judeo-Christian values begin and end? are your values only defined by being anti-Islamist fascist?

there's quite a slippery slope here when you start to say what people can do, rather than what they can't do.

for example, it's much better to say that people cannot chop off each others heads rather than say that they can only have Judeo-Christian values. likewise with sexuality. it's one thing to have a proscriptive notion of what sexuality should be -- married man and woman missionary style with the intention of children -- whereas it's something different to simply say that some aspects of human sexuality -- pedophelia -- are illegal. one is where you are telling people what the should do, what they must do, and what they can do; the other, you are telling them what they cannot do, and they are then thusly free to explore sexuality (or religion, or political thought, or hairstyles) on their own within parameters that have been agreed upon, however loosely, by society, and with built-in means of challenging such parameters in the form of courts and legislation.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:22 PM   #80
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Originally posted by Irvine511




so where do your Judeo-Christian values begin and end? are your values only defined by being anti-Islamist fascist?

there's quite a slippery slope here when you start to say what people can do, rather than what they can't do.

for example, it's much better to say that people cannot chop off each others heads rather than say that they can only have Judeo-Christian values. likewise with sexuality. it's one thing to have a proscriptive notion of what sexuality should be -- married man and woman missionary style with the intention of children -- whereas it's something different to simply say that some aspects of human sexuality -- pedophelia -- are illegal. one is where you are telling people what the should do, what they must do, and what they can do; the other, you are telling them what they cannot do, and they are then thusly free to explore sexuality (or religion, or political thought, or hairstyles) on their own within parameters that have been agreed upon, however loosely, by society, and with built-in means of challenging such parameters in the form of courts and legislation.
You asked me what would make an ideal country - and I quickly answered with 10 things that make the US that ideal country - or least they would be a good start.
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Old 02-21-2007, 04:51 PM   #81
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oh man.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:09 PM   #82
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:17 PM   #83
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The dream country is modern day America with a few tweaks.

1) return of American mythology - meaning, I think there is value in building up the lives of men like Washington, Jefferson, FDR, MLK. Keep them larger than life and hold them up as examples of courage and leadership.

2) allow Judeo/Christian ethics and morality to be taught in public schools. Secular Humanism is the current religion being taught and I think it is leading us down the wrong path.

3) removal of activist judges, both conservative and liberal.

4) an end to big oil and big auto as we know it. We are slaves to this outdated, robber barron system and I hate it. Electric cars are very patriotic

5) the banning and removal of Islamic Fascism.

6) extreme funding of green technology. The ROI will be worth it!

7) outlaw abortion (this is a brutal and barbaric practice - medical advances will only continue to reveal how truly awful this is)

8) mandatory 2 year service for every man and woman (can be military, peace corps, Red Cross...etc)

9) that we choose to reject the sewage that comes from Hollywood.

10) that our university teachers stop usuing their position to spread the hatred of America and Judeo/Christian values.

Any candidate, man/woman/black/white/Republican/Democrat/Independent, running on these basic principles, and he walks as he talks (i.e. integrity), is my ideal candidate
There's more to you that meets the eye, there's a bit of substance there.

I can sign up to quite a bit of this, and I now revise my earlier impression of you.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:20 PM   #84
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at the way this thread is going.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:35 PM   #85
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I know. Those of us who are neither Judeo nor Christian are feeling a little as well.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:45 PM   #86
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I know. Those of us who are neither Judeo nor Christian are feeling a little as well.
It is understandable why you feel this way. I felt that way before I was a Christian as well.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:19 PM   #87
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It is understandable why you feel this way. I felt that way before I was a Christian as well.
No, you don't understand. My consternation is about having no place in your Utopia. The specter of re-education camps is entering my mind.


I'm quite comfortable with my faith, thank you.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:28 PM   #88
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So gang, what's your idea of an ideal conservative christian (besides a dead one?)
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:32 PM   #89
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It is understandable why you feel this way. I felt that way before I was a Christian as well.
Oh good grief.

Yes, 5 billion people out there are living in daily misery.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:40 PM   #90
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So gang, what's your idea of an ideal conservative christian (besides a dead one?)
Maybe a little less arrogance(as we see above) and a little more humility, and a whole LOT more love.
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