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Old 02-21-2007, 11:18 AM   #61
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With our modern military - nukes aren't needed.


and maybe nukes weren't needed in 1945 either.

maybe they were a political action rather than a purely military action.

would these questions be allowed?
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:00 PM   #62
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Where are you going that you need to travel at 200 mph???
I must get you in a Dodge Viper and onto the Nordschleife section of the Nürburgring sometime.
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:41 PM   #63
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AEON, is there room for dissent at all? Or are we all thinking alike in your Utopia?
I didn't say anything about removing the voting process.
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:44 PM   #64
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I didn't say anything about removing the voting process.


but it is clear that freedom is subordinate to one specific set of values, yes?
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Old 02-21-2007, 12:58 PM   #65
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but it is clear that freedom is subordinate to one specific set of values, yes?
Is there something wrong with a common set of values? And if the answer is "depends on the values" - I'd add, "Judeo-Christian values." (which can be a slightly moving target, but it certainly is as good a starting point as any).

Hollywood Values are what many are trying to instill as the common set of values. Because this will ulitmately lead to self destruction, I'm arguing for a better course.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:04 PM   #66
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Is there something wrong with a common set of values? And if the answer is "depends on the values" - I'd add, "Judeo-Christian values." (which can be a slightly moving target, but it certainly is as good a starting point as any).

Hollywood Values are what many are trying to instill as the common set of values. Because this will ulitmately lead to self destruction, I'm arguing for a better course.


i have taken a few classes in Buddhism lately, and i think there's a great set of values there. they are not Judeo-Christian values, but are possibly compaitble with them, and can definitely co-exist with them.

you're essentially saying that you don't believe in pluralism. that there must be one standard, one way of doing things, one understanding of right and wrong.

and just what societies does this remind us of?
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:15 PM   #67
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you're essentially saying that you don't believe in pluralism. that there must be one standard, one way of doing things, one understanding of right and wrong.
Well, you asked me for an ideal.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:17 PM   #68
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Well, you asked me for an ideal.


can coexistence be an ideal?

(you've also never addressed the point you helped me make, that being gay is quite moral)
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:21 PM   #69
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can coexistence be an ideal?

(you've also never addressed the point you helped me make, that being gay is quite moral)
Well, if one set of values blatanly contradicts another, I don't see how they can coexist (unless both sets of values are ignored)
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:26 PM   #70
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Well, if one set of values blatanly contradicts another, I don't see how they can coexist (unless both sets of values are ignored)


or both sets of values agree to coexist.

are there really many "values" that blatantly contradict one another? i've done a fair bit of traveling, and the one thing i can justly say is that people are people. everyone's just trying to get through the day in the same basic way, work for the same basic things, and simply want to be happy and be with people they love. how are these not values? do we have to quibble over, say, montheism or polytheism or atheism or anti-theism? can't we just preserve the right of people to believe what they want, and be done with it?
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:39 PM   #71
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I didn't say anything about removing the voting process.
So if eventually the teaching of Judeo-Christian values is eliminated through a vote, where does that leave your country?
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:46 PM   #72
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So if eventually the teaching of Judeo-Christian values is eliminated through a vote, where does that leave your country?
Something other than ideal.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:49 PM   #73
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Like the one we have now.
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Old 02-21-2007, 02:22 PM   #74
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Like the one we have now.
Umm. yes. Today the country is less than ideal.
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Old 02-21-2007, 02:30 PM   #75
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Umm. yes. Today the country is less than ideal.


but maybe we wouldn't want an ideal.

ideals are, by definition, exclusionary.

i don't think i'd be allowed in your country, AEON. is that correct?
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