Sciencetology and Anti-Depressants

[MaxFisher]

Tom Cruise has come under fire lately for criticizing Brooke Sheilds for taking anti-depressants. He got into a spat with Matt Lauer the other day on this same subject.

I don't know much about sciencetology and I am wondering why this religion does not allow therapy or drugs.

Anyone know?

 

[Irvine511]

Tom might not be taking his Ritalin anymore, but he sure sounds like he's gotten a big bootlegged stash of Crazy Pills.

 

[Dreadsox]

Scientologists do not believe in psychology.

 

[Irvine511]

i did see the interview on The Katie Couric Show ... i mean, the Today Show ... and while i can't speak for Scientology's specific beliefs, i think Tom has misunderstood what exactly drugs are used for.

he's right in that there's abuse of medication, that kids (and some adults) snort antidepressants and ritalin and adderall, and that these are powerful things. there's clearlyl abuse, and over-medication, and too many parents think that medicating an ADHD child is simply easier than dealing with the problem.

however, these drugs are not meant to fix the problem, necessarily; they are intended to help a person get to a place where they are then able to begin to work on fixing their problems themselves. drugs are not a cure, they are a treatment for symptoms. as someone who has benefited greatly from a small amount of talk therapy, i feel like my success could be attributed to the "work" done via conversation and the honest examination of painful emotions with a counselor who was trained to keep me focused and keep me talking so that i was doing the work and understanding my problems, understanding how they were affecting me, and suggesting techniques (meditation, some zen philosophy, relaxation techniques) that helped me more in the long run than, say, Paxil or another anti-anxiety drug might have.

however, while i was in a bad place, i was also lucky enough to have my brain in fairly decent running order and medication was not necessary. not everyone can say the same thing.

dont' know what the point of that was, necessarily, but just thought i'd share ...

 

[MaxFisher]

Thanks for the info, Irvine. I have found therapy and anti-depressants to be extremely helpful. As you said, anti-depressants definetly don't solve problems, but they put you in a healthier state of mind to deal with certain issues that otherwise seemed insurmountable.

 

[u2bonogirl]

Irvine, you took the words straight out of my mouth
Thanks

 

[Irvine511]

what's weird, to me, is that the rumors i hear -- and i do work in "the biz," sort of, if by "the biz" we mean making TV on the East Coast -- is that Tom believes that Scientology has not only cured him of his dyslexia, but also of his ADD. he's gone off his ADD meds, and this is why his recent behavior has been that of a feral man-child raised by wolves.

and now he's got adorable jail-bait Joey Potter under his toothy spell.

 

[nbcrusader]

People should take the time to learn about the basic teachings of Scientology. It has qualified as a religion for tax purposes, but the basic tenents are all rooted in science fiction.

Scientology is a large, wealthy, agressive cult.

 

[AvsGirl41]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how Scientology started?

A hardcore sci-fi fan (and not a member) once told me that L. Ron Hubbard felt he wasn't making enough money, so he decided to start a religion on the advice of another author. (I want to say Bradbury, but I honestly don't remember. I also don't know if the other author was joking, I suspect he was)

The way Scientology is set up certainly lends me to believe the story...but I am curious if L. Ron Hubbard ever truly believed it himself.

 

[nbcrusader]

That is my understanding as well.

 

[melon]

Here's a few things I know about it:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote "Dianetics" in 1951 as a secular philosophy on self-improvement. It was dismissed by mainstream medicine from the start. In 1953, he declared his philosophy a religion and called it "Scientology." That name, in itself, is very curious, because it was originally coined in the early 20th century as meaning "pseudoscience." Scientology developed more and more elaborate beliefs as Hubbard continued to write them (and it's thought that he pilfered from Aleister Crowley's early 20th century occultist beliefs), but at its earliest origins, it was a reaction against psychology and psychiatry; and, as such, no one should be surprised that Scientologists hate it as much as they do.

Melon

 

[nbcrusader]

Well, when you are possessed by alien beings from thousands of years ago, you might not think that modern psychiatry will help.

 

[u2bonogirl]

what's weird, to me, is that the rumors i hear -- and i do work in "the biz," sort of, if by "the biz" we mean making TV on the East Coast -- is that Tom believes that Scientology has not only cured him of his dyslexia, but also of his ADD. he's gone off his ADD meds, and this is why his recent behavior has been that of a feral man-child raised by wolves.

and now he's got adorable jail-bait Joey Potter under his toothy spell.

lets hope he doesnt spell something wrong on the marriage certificate
Mot Ruisec and Takie molesh
Niiiiiice

 

[AvsGirl41]

Has anyone read "Battlefield Earth" or seen the horrible movie?

I remember when it came out, critics said it was filled with Scientology teachings, but I saw it (regrettably, long story) I never caught any. But I don't know what such sayings/teachings would be.

Does anyone know? Probably no one here has subjected themselves to either version.

 

[u2bonogirl]

supposedly the new star wars was a giant bush bash, but I didnt catch on to that either
Maybe i was too distracted by darth vader

My sister lives in hollywood and knows a lot of scientoligists. Basically her take on it is that its a fad among them, and some people actually convert to it to get an "in"
Giovanni Ribisi has family with some hollywood power or something, and theyre more willing to help out scientologists
Ive also heard that theyre kind of whack in some ways, but some of the classes you can take from them can be pretty helpful as well

 

[melon]

Well, when you are possessed by alien beings from thousands of years ago, you might not think that modern psychiatry will help.

Add a few more zeros. It's 75 billion years ago.

Melon

 

[melon]

Has anyone read "Battlefield Earth" or seen the horrible movie?

I remember when it came out, critics said it was filled with Scientology teachings, but I saw it (regrettably, long story) I never caught any. But I don't know what such sayings/teachings would be.

Does anyone know? Probably no one here has subjected themselves to either version.

I believe he wrote it after he got in trouble with the government and officially "retired" from Scientology afterwards sometime in the early 1980s. It was meant to be a return to his science fiction roots and not as a Scientology scripture.

(Yes, I was curious about this religion at one point and read up about its history...lol).

Melon

 

[anitram]

People should take the time to learn about the basic teachings of Scientology. It has qualified as a religion for tax purposes, but the basic tenents are all rooted in science fiction.

Scientology is a large, wealthy, agressive cult.

I'm glad we're calling a spade a spade in this instance.

Scientology is not considered to be a religion, but a cult, in a number of places in the world. Germany is one of them.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I happened to catch about 10 minutes of Larry King's interview with Priscilla Presley the other night and when he asked her about Scientology she was incredibly inarticulate on the subject and said something like, 'It's going great, the business is great' and I thought, bingo, the business is great.

Great points, Irvine, about the healthy use of antidepressants being to get a person to the point where they can deal better with what's going on. Many years ago I had a personal crisis and I was so emotionally distraught that I really couldn't even talk rationally to a therapist and objectively see what was going on. While generally I approach my healthcare from an alternative point of view, in that case I allowed the therapist to prescribe Prozac for me. It immediately calmed my emotional body down enough so that I could begin therapy. It was an enormous help and after about 6 months my doctor and I decided it was no longer necessary so I was weaned off, continued therapy for another couple of months, and then went on my way. Today I am more educated on nutritional therapies for depression and anxiety and would probably choose an alternative route over medication but given what I knew then and where I was, it was the right choice. Tom is completely arrogant to think he knows what is best for another person and I believe his comments on the subject are totally ego-driven.

 

[melon]

I dunno. I'm notoriously suspicious of prescription antidepressants, so in that instance, Tom Cruise and I would have something in common. But I certainly can't support the "pseudoscientific" alternative that is Scientology.

Melon

 

[joyfulgirl]

I dunno. I'm notoriously suspicious of prescription antidepressants, so in that instance, Tom Cruise and I would have something in common.
Melon

So am I, yet I had a good experience with them short-term. As I said, I would make a different choice today but the point is Tom doesn't need to be publicly preaching about Brooke Shields' personal decision. It's one thing to voice an opinion about antidepressants but to start naming people who use them and criticizing them for it I feel is completely inappropriate.

 

[Irvine511]

Tom's comments were so sanctimonious it was tremendously off putting ... while i'm sure he and Bono have similar-sized egos, it made me appreciate the humor and self-deprication that Bono uses to advance his causes. Tom seemed to me an example of precisely how a celebrity should NOT advance a cause or philosophy.

poor boy, though. if he'd just come out ...

 

[joyfulgirl]

Tom's comments were so sanctimonious it was tremendously off putting ... while i'm sure he and Bono have similar-sized egos, it made me appreciate the humor and self-deprication that Bono uses to advance his causes. Tom seemed to me an example of precisely how a celebrity should NOT advance a cause or philosophy.

Indeed. Bono at least has the self-awareness to try to keep his ego in check.

poor boy, though. if he'd just come out ...

and bring Travolta with him

 

[coemgen]

My sister lives in hollywood and knows a lot of scientoligists. Basically her take on it is that its a fad among them, and some people actually convert to it to get an "in"
Giovanni Ribisi has family with some hollywood power or something, and theyre more willing to help out scientologists

That's exactly what it is: a fad cult. I keep hearing Tom Cruise say "It's helped people I know get off drugs." So what. Many things do. That doesn't legitimize it as a belief system you should gamble your life and eternity on.

This is something I found on www.watchman.org, which is an organization that seeks to expose cults for what they really are.

"TIME magazine's May 6, 1991 cover story described the Church of Scientology, founded by L. Ron Hubbard (1911-1986), as a "cult of greed" adding that it "poses as a religion but is really a ruthless global scam" (p. 50).
The eight-page TIME article, written by Richard Behar, described Scientology as a "hugely profitable global racket that survives by intimidating members and critics in a Mafia-like manner"

Some of the charges the article made included:

Illegal Activities including financial scams, forgery, holding followers hostage, and criminal operations such as "infiltrating, burglarizing and wiretapping more than 100 private and government agencies in attempts to block their investigations" (Ibid, pp. 50-53).

Legal Harassment of its critics including 71 active lawsuits against the IRS, 14 lawsuits against attorney Michael Flynn, who represented former members (all dismissed), and 19 lawsuits against journalist Paulette Cooper who wrote a critical book in 1971.

Cooper was also the victim of what a church document titled "Operation Freak-Out," a church sponsored attempt to frame Cooper for bomb threats which was uncovered when a 1977 FBI raid recovered church memos.

Mental and Physical Abuse of followers through expensive manipulative sessions that "can produce a drugged-like, mind-controlled euphoria" employing schizophrenic and paranoid behavior which promotes psycho¬pathic response and suicide (Ibid, p. 52).

Sounds great, Tom. Sign me up. I want to be like a movie star.

 

[Irvine511]

and bring Travolta with him

to be honest, i think we might have a commonality here.

it's no secret that both Travolta and Cruise have been haunted by gay rumors since the 1980s and 1970s, respectively. we also know that a, by and large, homophobic public might have a difficult time believing that homosexual actors can play convincing heterosexuals (calling Kevin Spacey, Kevin Klein ...) or action heroes. this means less bankability, which means getting booted off the A-List.

perhaps Scientology is marketed, to them, as a way to "overcome" or "combat" their sexual orientation, whereas psychiatry tells us that there is nothing one can do to change one's sexual orientation.

and this is where Scientology has commonalities with cultish aspects of certain elements of politicized Christianity (i.e., Exodus Ministries, those poor children who are being abused in that ex-gay camp in TN ... see my earlier thread).

just wild speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Dreadsox]

Has anyone read "Battlefield Earth" or seen the horrible movie?

I remember when it came out, critics said it was filled with Scientology teachings, but I saw it (regrettably, long story) I never caught any. But I don't know what such sayings/teachings would be.

Does anyone know? Probably no one here has subjected themselves to either version.

I have read Battlefield Earth the book.....

Loved it....

the movie stunk.

Mr. Hubbard is one of my favorite Sci Fi writers.

 

[indra]

Has anyone read "Battlefield Earth" or seen the horrible movie?

Probably no one here has subjected themselves to either version.

Unfortunately I have seen the movie. All I can say is it was so bad it was hilarious.

All the good movies I miss, yet I manage to see that piece of dreck... What was I thinking?

 

[AvsGirl41]

Unfortunately I have seen the movie. All I can say is it was so bad it was hilarious.

All the good movies I miss, yet I manage to see that piece of dreck... What was I thinking?

I ask myself the same thing.

I saw it at the theatre--I think opening day, no less!! Part of it was that John Travolta came to Denver to promote it.

The whole theatre was laughing at it though and that was funny.

 

[Irvine511]

Unfortunately I have seen the movie. All I can say is it was so bad it was hilarious.

All the good movies I miss, yet I manage to see that piece of dreck... What was I thinking?

i thought it was the loudest movie i've ever seen.

the acting was as good as any junior high theater presentation i've ever seen.

"A MAN-ANIMAL? DIGGING FOR GOLD? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I don't know much about Scientology, but from what I have heard about it, it sounds a little...out there to me, personally. Very popular among celebrities...none of the celebrities I like are involved in it, though, heh.

As for the pills thing...man, you would not believe how many teens I know who are on some pill for something or other. I definitely do think people can get over-medicated nowadays or are given pills for everything under the sun-geez, there's probably something I do that would warrant a pill if a doctor came across it. Also, every kid I've known who's taken anti-depressants have only become more depressed and suicidal, not less. I don't doubt some of these pills can have their benefits and can help some people out, but everyone I've known hasn't really been helped by having all these pills, their problems are just being made worse. I dunno .

Angela