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Old 06-26-2005, 04:23 PM   #76
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Originally posted by melon


Vitamins work for me. In fact, since all antidepressants are generally little more than stimulants, they make me feel like shit. I want to calm down, not get more hyper!

Melon
The difference between your experience and mine for example show how very different people are. Vitamins and herbal remedies did nothing for me...I just got worse -- suicidal even. Anti-depressants, however, work for me, and I don't ever feel hyper.

In fact the only problem I've come across with them for me is that eventually I become quite sluggish on the anti-depressants and then I have to either be weaned off them for a while or change anti-depressants. Which of those choices we (doctor and I) do depends largely on how I'm doing emotionally. If I feel good overall except for the sluggishness, we go for the weaning. If I'm iffy emotionally and sluggish we change drugs.

And the difference between melon's and my experiences with anti-depressants is what makes me so irritated at Scientology and other groups with similar views. I have no doubt that melon knows what does and does not work for him from experience. And I know from my experience what works and does not work for me. Scientologists seem to believe that one size (their's) does indeed fit all.
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:29 PM   #77
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Originally posted by indra
The difference between your experience and mine for example show how very different people are. Vitamins and herbal remedies did nothing for me...I just got worse -- suicidal even. Anti-depressants, however, work for me, and I don't ever feel hyper.
You're right. We're all different. I just get offended when people automatically assume that vitamins are quackery. It works for many of us and with no side effects.

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In fact the only problem I've come across with them for me is that eventually I become quite sluggish on the anti-depressants and then I have to either be weaned off them for a while or change anti-depressants. Which of those choices we (doctor and I) do depends largely on how I'm doing emotionally. If I feel good overall except for the sluggishness, we go for the weaning. If I'm iffy emotionally and sluggish we change drugs.
Out of curiosity, how does your "sluggishness" manifest itself? My main concern has been that these prescription drugs are mostly stimulants, and, as such, tax the adrenal glands. For someone like me, it was too much, and I had to drop them all immediately. You'd know if it was adrenals, if you're eyes were burning and felt exhausted, while feeling simultaneously hyped up.

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And the difference between melon's and my experiences with anti-depressants is what makes me so irritated at Scientology and other groups with similar views. I have no doubt that melon knows what does and does not work for him from experience. And I know from my experience what works and does not work for me. Scientologists seem to believe that one size (their's) does indeed fit all.
I know. People who claim to know everything are always wrong.

Melon
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Old 06-26-2005, 04:53 PM   #78
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Originally posted by melon


You're right. We're all different. I just get offended when people automatically assume that vitamins are quackery. It works for many of us and with no side effects.

Melon
I apologize for jumping to a conclusion. I've been having really bad experiences with Scientologists for years. It seems like Scientology even had something to do with my last relationship turning into a disaster area because the guy was getting bad advice from Scientologists and became a major hole. When I read those comments from Tom Cruise something just went off inside of me. I fd up big time.
I'll continue with my antidepressants but I did go to the drugstore and get a great big bottle of vitamins.
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Old 06-26-2005, 05:01 PM   #79
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Originally posted by melon


You're right. We're all different. I just get offended when people automatically assume that vitamins are quackery. It works for many of us and with no side effects.
It's great when it does work, and it was my first choice. But I wouldn't be here if it was my only choice. Of course I guess that would solve the problem...one less person who needs anti-depressants.

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how does your "sluggishness" manifest itself? My main concern has been that these prescription drugs are mostly stimulants, and, as such, tax the adrenal glands. For someone like me, it was too much, and I had to drop them all immediately. You'd know if it was adrenals, if you're eyes were burning and felt exhausted, while feeling simultaneously hyped up.
I never felt hyped up, and it was more of an unambitious feeling than physical sluggishness. Never had the burning eyes either. I was often quite content, but content not to do anything. And that didn't go over very well. Most of the time I get weaned off them entirely for a while, and then if I need them later I go back on (and sometimes try a different one when I start up again). I think I only had to switch (rather than wean off for a while) once. I think the lack of ambition feeling is a sign that I don't need the medication at that time.

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I know. People who claim to know everything are always wrong.

Melon
Yep.
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:16 PM   #80
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Originally posted by verte76



I'll continue with my antidepressants but I did go to the drugstore and get a great big bottle of vitamins.
If it's an option for you, I'd recommend working with vitamin supplements with a nutritionist. I'm fortunate that one of my best friends is a clinical nutritionist and can provide me with proper dosages based on bloodwork, and high quality supplements. Amino acids in particular have helped me tremendously. A lifelong insomniac, I now sleep, for starters! I'm glad you got some vitamins. I thought I ate really well but discovered I was depleted in so many areas. Interestingly, though, my medical doctor looked at my bloodwork and said 'oh, you're fine, everything's normal' whereas my friend/nutritionist looked at the same bloodwork and said, 'oh my God, no wonder you're depressed, I want to begin amino acid therapy immediately' so it really helps when someone is trained to look at the bloodwork differently than a doctor trained in traditional western medicine.

So, like, melon, I actually agree with the horrible Tom Cruise on this issue and at the same time, as I said in a previous post, I also had a good short-term experience with antidepressants years ago and that as indra also pointed out, everyone is different. The point being, no one should judge another for their choice of treatment.
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Old 06-26-2005, 07:20 PM   #81
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Tom Cruise apparently hasn't learned that you'll attract more flies with honey than vinegar. The man has no tact.

That said, it is silly to assume that drugs can fix everyone or that vitamins can fix everyone. They simply can't - the body is too complex to have a one-size-fits-all treatment.

If you can find what works for you, and it is not destructive, then that should be nobody else's business. Period.
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Old 06-26-2005, 09:14 PM   #82
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Interestingly, though, my medical doctor looked at my bloodwork and said 'oh, you're fine, everything's normal' whereas my friend/nutritionist looked at the same bloodwork and said, 'oh my God, no wonder you're depressed, I want to begin amino acid therapy immediately' so it really helps when someone is trained to look at the bloodwork differently than a doctor trained in traditional western medicine.
Funny. That's what happened to me. My amino acid levels were all low to low normal. Nowadays, when I feel like my tolerance level is plummeting, I've always got high grade protein powder lying around. In fact, I've had a really good day today, because of it...lol.

Melon
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:10 PM   #83
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Originally posted by coemgen


He's in a cult and about to marry for the third time. Doesn't sound like perfection to me.
What's marrying for the 3rd time got to do with the price of free range in bloody china? really. i'm so sick of christianity pointing the finger and faulting. religions, all of them, can shove it sideways up it's arse.



i do agree with everyone on tom though.
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:18 PM   #84
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem


What's marrying for the 3rd time got to do with the price of free range in bloody china? really. i'm so sick of christianity pointing the finger and faulting. religions, all of them, can shove it sideways up it's arse.



i do agree with everyone on tom though.
I think all that was meant is that if he's getting married for the third time he's had two marriages that haven't worked out. I'm pretty sure there are few if any people who think a divorce (or two, in this case) is a fun or happy thing. I think divorce can be wonderful (no one should have to stay in an awful marriage), but it is generally painful, and not something most people ever wish to do. It means at least two relationships he had ultimately failed...I don't think that's just a Christian view of it either.
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:30 PM   #85
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i know that getting married for the 3rd time means he's had 2 fail before (just stating this because you said it twice), but what benefit is there in pointing that out? to point out what a failure he is? how far from perfect his life is? it really does have little to do with someone's religion. scientologists fuck up and marry the wrong people. so do christians. many people do. we dont need to point it out in regard to any aspect of that as a lack of perfection, do we?
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Old 06-26-2005, 10:43 PM   #86
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
i know that getting married for the 3rd time means he's had 2 fail before (just stating this because you said it twice), but what benefit is there in pointing that out? to point out what a failure he is? how far from perfect his life is? it really does have little to do with someone's religion. scientologists fuck up and marry the wrong people. so do christians. many people do. we dont need to point it out in regard to any aspect of that as a lack of perfection, do we?
Someone mentioned his life was perfect. Someone else pointed out it was far from perfect. That's all. I really doubt his choice of religion plays that much of a part in the discussion, except that he chooses to bring it's position on anti-depressants up in the conversation. When he brought it up (and other people's personal lives up), it (religion) and his personal life then became fair game.

And because he was/is being a sanctimonious twit.
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:14 AM   #87
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That's right, everyone is different. I'd like to have a nutritionist look at my bloodwork and see if I'm low on amino acids. I don't need some celebrity opening his big trap and making some pronouncement on my health. You're right, anitram, the guy has no tact.
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:37 AM   #88
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On Scis and psychiatrists -

http://www.razormagazine.com/feature1203a.php

snippets - (long article, good read)

**"In September 2003, one of these Scientology release forms surfaced on the Internet. The form, which describes itself as a "contract," states that the signer opposes psychiatric treatment for anyone, particularly him or herself. Should some mental illness befall them, they authorize the Church of Scientology to "extricate" them from the clutches of psychiatrists who might seek to treat them. In lieu of psychiatric care, the contract says they agree to be placed on the "Introspection Rundown," a Scientology therapy invented by the Church's late founder, L. Ron Hubbard."

"The release form reads: "I understand that the Introspection Rundown... includes being isolated from all sources of potential spiritual upset, including, but not limited to family members, friends or others with whom I might normally interact. As part of the Introspection Rundown, I specifically consent to Church members being with me 24 hours a day at the direction of my Case Supervisor." In addition, "...the Case Supervisor will determine the time period in which I will remain isolated..." And later in the same paragraph: "...such duration will be completely at the discretion of the Case Supervisor." The form ends with: "I further understand that by signing below, I am forever giving up my right to sue the Church... for any injury or damage suffered in any way connected with Scientology religious services or spiritual assistance."

**"The Church of Scientology is the brainchild of the late science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, who first put forward his theories on mental illness in his 1950 book, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. In it he argued that all mental and psychosomatic illnesses spring from a single source: moments of previously experienced pain or loss called "engrams." Hubbard told readers they could "clear" themselves of engrams through a crude form of psychotherapy he called "auditing." People who attain the state of Clear were said to be free from all mental problems, plus the pains of arthritis, migraine, ulcers, allergies, asthma, coronary difficulties, bursitis, poor vision and even the common cold. It was quite a bargain for the price of a book, and Dianetics quickly rose to the top of The New York Times bestseller list.

Based on the book's success, Hubbard opened a "Dianetics Foundation" in Elizabeth, New Jersey, where students could learn auditing from the master firsthand. But rather than go Clear, several "Dianeticists" committed suicide. By 1951, the New Jersey State Board of Medical Examiners accused the organization of teaching medicine without a license. The Dianetics Foundation soon went bankrupt, and Dianetics, which had briefly been a national fad, sank into obscurity.

Broke and despondent, Hubbard sought various ways to breathe new life into his failing enterprise. In 1953, he wrote to a friend, "What do you think about the religion angle? I sure could make it stick!"

**"Whether it's a brainwashing cult or a religion, one thing is certain: Scientology continues to recruit streams of new members (called "raw meat" by the sales staff). Their sales gimmicks include offering "free stress tests" on street corners, promising to rid people of drug habits through their front group, Narconon (spokesperson: Kirstie Alley), teaching kids how to study through their World Literacy Campaign (spokesperson: Isaac Hayes) and a host of other schemes."

**"Once inside Scientology's doors, "registrars" (salespeople) extract huge sums of money from believers. "Make Money," Hubbard once urged his staff. "Make more money. Make other people produce so as to make more money." How much money do they make? No one knows for sure, but it is estimated that a person can spend a cool $365,000 to make it to the top of Hubbard's "Bridge to Total Freedom."

also check out -
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
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Old 06-28-2005, 06:32 AM   #89
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I think the Church of Scientology is more like the Mafia than a church of any kind, I really do. I'm not saying I agree with this, but why do you think they made it illegal in Germany to be a Scientologist? I've read where they won't let professing Scientologists enter the country. Whew!
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