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Old 10-02-2006, 10:44 PM   #16
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These Amish speak English.

The Village was in Chester County, the county bordering the east side of Lancaster Co. (i.e.: closer to Philadelphia).
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:26 PM   #17
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"A fourth girl has died from injuries received when a gunman barricaded himself in an Amish school and opened fire, CNN has confirmed. Seven others are wounded and listed as critical. The gunman, identified as a milk truck driver, was armed with three guns, two knives, a stun gun and more than 600 rounds of ammunition, police said Monday." CNN.com


They keep referring to an incident that happened to him 20 years ago. I'd like to know wtf would make an otherwise normal man do such a thing
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by redkat

They keep referring to an incident that happened to him 20 years ago. I'd like to know wtf would make an otherwise normal man do such a thing
No one who does what he did was ever normal at any time.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:20 AM   #19
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Yes, I think to hurt anyone in such a way or circumstance, you really are missing a few marbles.

This is such a terrible thing to hear about .. my heart goes out to these young kids (and adults) who were involved
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:42 AM   #20
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People who suffer such tragedy generally ask question " How could this happen in our town (community) ? "

This incident happened in a place where one could hardly conceive of such an event. A one room schoolhouse? Targeting little girls? Totally insane!

This kind of thing CAN happen anywhere.
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:39 AM   #21
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thx for info people , wasnt trying to be funny was just curious as to their way of life.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:30 AM   #22
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thx for info people , wasnt trying to be funny was just curious as to their way of life.
I wouldn't expect someone from another country where there are no Amish people to know all that much, if anything, about them- don't worry about it. Geesh, I don't know..anyway.. This article has some information

(AP) -- They set themselves apart from nearly all modern things -- electricity, automobiles, movies, television and video games. Most of all, they abhor violence.

But in the heart of Pennsylvania Amish country, an outsider barged through the door of a one-room schoolhouse and shot to death three girls. And when he did, he brought violence to a place that considers it evil.

"I don't even know if I could begin to comprehend how this might affect those people," said Steve Scott, an Amish expert at Elizabethtown College, about 30 miles west of the tiny hamlet in southern Lancaster County where Monday's shootings occurred.

"The Amish believe that Christ taught we are not to return evil for evil," said Scott. Even when faced with something as heinous as losing a child to an execution-style shooting, "they are taught to turn the other cheek."

Also known as Anabaptists, the Amish are a Christian denomination that separates itself for a variety of religious reasons. They do not serve in the military, draw Social Security or accept other forms of government assistance. Old Order Amish, the most conservative and most prevalent in states including Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana, have attained a certain notoriety for their horse-drawn carriages with modern-day reflector triangles on the back, and handmade wares and foods they sell to tourists.

Life comes from the land -- mostly crop farming and dairy farming. In all things, piety and plainness are emphasized. Women wear long dresses of solid fabric, with aprons in white or black and cloth caps or bonnets. Men dress in dark pants, suspenders and vest, with a broad-rimmed hat. Along with English, they speak a German dialect called Pennsylvania Dutch or Pennsylvania German.

They began arriving in Lancaster County around 1730, and the community numbers about 55,000 in Pennsylvania today. Their separation is often attributed to the literal interpretation of New Testament chapters -- including Second Corinthians and Romans. One of the most popular is Corinthians II, 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"

The Amish are an offshoot of the Mennonites, who fled from Switzerland to Germany under persecution for refusing to join the military and for not believing in infant baptism. They split from the Mennonites in 1693, mostly because of the Amish practice of shunning.

To be shunned means expulsion from the community for breaching religious guidelines. All communication and contact is cut off, even among families. Someone who joins the faith, but then denounces it and leaves, for example, would be shunned.

When members of the community die, they are buried in wooden coffins; women in all white and men in all black. Bodies are embalmed, but undertakers do not apply makeup. Funerals are held in the victim's home, and the dead are delivered to the cemetery in a horse-drawn carriage. A hymn is read, but there is no singing.

Like other religions, rules have softened over time, necessitated by commerce and need. There are Amish telephone booths, for instance, that can be used in emergencies. Some dairies sporadically use generator electricity to cool milk containers so it can be sold according to market regulations. Some hire taxis to take them to town.

But at their core, the Amish believe life is based on faith. And belief in the world to come, where there is no violence.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:36 AM   #23
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School shootings...

I still wonder what can drive people to do things like this...

When I see news about this or read articles about it, it always makes me shiver and glad, that I've never been through an experience like it before...
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:59 AM   #24
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Like all of you, I am shocked and horrified at the recent spate of school violence in my own state, in Pennsylvania, Colorado, and elsewhere.

Maybe because my boyfriend is a special education teacher in one of the most dangerous areas of the city of Milwaukee - an area where violence on and off of the school grounds is an every day occurrence - I wonder why there isn't more shock and outrage over the violence in our own backyards.

When a violent incident happens in a small, predominently white, town, we all shake our heads and lament the incident and rally to provide support to those touched by the incident. And we should do this.

But when it happens in an area of a large city where the residents are African American or Hispanic, there isn't the same level of shock or outrage. We tend to turn our backs and do nothing and blame "them" for the problems in "their" neighborhood.

This column was in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this morning and echoes many of the things I have been feeling lately. Some food for thought for the FYM crowd.

Violence has no color or ZIP code
Posted: Oct. 2, 2006
By Eugene Kane

When I write about violence in Milwaukee, I usually know who the people are by the address.

That's the result of living in a segregated city; when crime happens on certain city blocks, many residents can comfortably predict the race of the people involved both as victims and suspects.

Too many assume they know a lot more than that; they usually don't.

The news out of Cazenovia - a small western Wisconsin community shocked by two separate tragedies in recent days - reminded me how little insight some Milwaukeeans have into the lives of people living outside our metropolitan area.

When a popular school principal is killed by a student or a well-known athlete loses his life in a traffic accident, we can imagine we know the impact that kind of tragedy has on a place, but we don't.
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Not unless we live there.

The Weston Schools shooting was particularly troubling in light of an alleged shooting plan discovered in Green Bay - another place outside our area - that was averted because of the actions of a concerned student who warned police about the main suspects' deadly intentions.

News about senseless gunfire among young people isn't unusual in Milwaukee. What's unusual for some is the immediate reaction of outsiders when it's elsewhere.

When tragedy hits a small town or city, the sympathy wells up for all involved. When young people die in Milwaukee's central city, too often the reaction from outsiders is to point fingers and blame residents for tolerating the violence.

Suburban and rural white students caught in gunfire get immediate grief counselors dispatched to the scene. Black and brown city kids surrounded by violence have to resolve their emotional issues all by themselves.

When white kids in rural and suburban areas are involved in a terrible shooting, their communities are not placed on trial.

Some of this was discussed on black radio Monday morning, as co-host Joel McNally (WMCS-AM) talked about reactions he received to a recent column about the high school shootings.

McNally, who is white, took the greater white community to task in his column for tolerating the school shootings, blaming white people in general for allowing their kids to gain control of guns and wreak havoc. According to McNally, after the satirical column was published in a Madison newspaper, he heard from dozens of white readers accusing him of racism. (Welcome to my world, Joel.)

It should be a simple thing to understand that a rash of school shootings in mainly white areas of the state (and the nation) doesn't necessarily mean white people in general are overly violent or that most white parents are not good parents.

But it's getting harder to get some people to accept the flip side of that premise. This has always struck me as terribly unfair.

The violence in Milwaukee's central city is caused by the specific people - and their inner demons - who commit the crimes. That reality shouldn't be used as a whipping stick against law-abiding black residents with no connection other than their proximity to the shooting.

So it was interesting to hear about the tight-knit nature of a community like Cazenovia that led some in town to close ranks in the aftermath of tragedy, some refusing to talk to reporters. That reminded me of the reaction of many black residents who resent the swirl of media that shows up whenever something bad happens on their block.

Somehow they just know things are going to reflect badly on them, even though it shouldn't.
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Old 10-03-2006, 11:06 AM   #25
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It's so true, JessicaAnn. My mom works for an inner-city daycare/clinic and everyday she has a new horror story. I remember one time, my dad started talking about how there were two drive-by shootings at my (predominantly white) elementary school and my mom said "well, what they don't tell you in the press was that there were two stabbings by us today". Last week, an elementary school kid pulled out a gun on the schoolbus that was going to the daycare. Last year, a teen shot and killed another minor over $14. It's so bad, they had to get a mobile police unit placed next to the daycare!

But yeah, there's no outcry or any media attention in these types of places because everyone thinks they somehow deserve what they get.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:00 PM   #26
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Originally posted by martha


No one who does what he did was ever normal at any time.
Exactly. I'd hardly classify anyone whose done something like this "normal".
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:05 PM   #27
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From CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/03/ami...ing/index.html

A child molester and a now a child killer.
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:24 PM   #28
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Hi. I live about 10 minutes from Nickel Mines and all of this is so shocking. It turns out that my husband grew up with Charles Roberts. My brother-in-law used to be best friends with him as well. Roberts was homeschooled. My husband said that Roberts had mental problems, and a person wouldn't have been able to tell unless they were told about it. This is so sad. I know a lot of Amish people and work with some. They are very nice people and I hope they recover from this well.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:03 PM   #29
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I live about 10 minutes from Nickel Mines and all of this is so shocking. It turns out that my husband grew up with Charles Roberts. My brother-in-law used to be best friends with him as well. Roberts was homeschooled. My husband said that Roberts had mental problems, and a person wouldn't have been able to tell unless they were told about it.
Never justifies any action like this of course- but it's just one more case of never knowing what is ticking in any person, in any community. It is such a shame that he never got the proper help for his problems. Do you know if he ever sought help? How did people know about his mental health problems?
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:24 PM   #30
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Never justifies any action like this of course- but it's just one more case of never knowing what is ticking in any person, in any community. It is such a shame that he never got the proper help for his problems. Do you know if he ever sought help? How did people know about his mental health problems?
I don't know if he ever received any sort of help. My husband and my brother-in-law said he was mentally slow and didn't have any friends until he met my brother-in-law, so he was lacking in the social area as well. My husband new about it because his family and the Roberts' family were friends. They were both homeschooling families and there weren't many of those around 20 years ago so they became friends. My husband also works with Roberts' mother. Her daughter passed away from cancer a few years ago and she just came out of a rough battle with cancer herself and now this happens. I can't imagine how the family is feeling.
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