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Old 03-18-2002, 12:05 AM   #1
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Schindler's List

In my sociology class we watched Schindler's List. Everyone seemed to be fine with it. On the last day my teacher said she was considering if she would show it again next year or not on account of a (as in ONE) phone call from an angry parent. He said it was too violent for his child to be seeing, but had also said that he himself had never seen the movie. I really think that it's an important movie to watch and learn from. We read the book Night, which is FAR more graphic than the movie could ever hope to be. We also watch the movies Dances With Wolves and Michael Collins which are just as violent if not more than Schinlder's List. These three films are rather important to facing the brutality of history, should we let parental phone calls let us be blind to them?

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Old 03-18-2002, 12:29 AM   #2
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The parent has never seen the movie? So why listen to his opinion?
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Old 03-18-2002, 02:18 AM   #3
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I'd say no too. Our history teacher used to show us worse than Schindlers List. They had tapes of live executions and stuff, we only saw a few, but they were appropriate I think. It was factual, and necessary for education. It's one thing to learn from books, you can sit back and think wow how bad was all that, but seeing it puts it into perspective.
Besides all this Lilly, judging from your posts here, you are either a child prodigy, or are in a school class that is old enough to be seeing such things.
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Old 03-18-2002, 09:58 AM   #4
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If he hasn't seen the movie, then how can he judge whether or not it was appropriate or inappropriate for his child? Also, you're in high school, right Lilly? If so, I'm sure his child has seen far worse violence by now from tv and other movies than anything he'd see in Schindler's List. Yes, it's graphic, but it was important for the film, unlike most of the crap out there where it's only done for shock value and cheap thrills.
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Old 03-18-2002, 04:11 PM   #5
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Yeah, I'm not buying this dad's case, either. Schindler's List is a monumental film that is graphically violent and sexual on one hand, but is also a testament to the goodness and hope of humanity in the face of overwhelming evil. It's a damn important movie, I would say, for every single human being.

Including this hyper parent who has never seen it.

Sidebar: isn't it possible that today's kids are sheltered in certain ways--i.e. they can play Grand Theft Auto 3 all they want, but when it comes to *real* death (like funerals) or suffering (like the Holocaust), their parents don't want them to know anything about it...

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Old 03-18-2002, 04:34 PM   #6
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Lilly,


If any of your classmates are under 17 your teacher may have to acquiesce to one parent, for legal reasons.

Dances is rated PG-13, Michael Collins R, and Schindler’s List R

This may sound absurd, but could this parent be a “holocaust denier”?

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Old 03-18-2002, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by chain:
Lilly,


If any of your classmates are under 17 your teacher may have to acquiesce to one parent, for legal reasons.

We are seniors in high school. We are all 17+ (pretty much). In sophomore year we watch Amistad, rated R, and it requires a parental signature to watch it. I suppose that could be one way to solve the 'problem'. I used the girl just as an example, she later said to me that she doesn't understand why we watch it, especially since they've been "shoving the Holocaust down our throats since 4th grade." The purpose of using this example was to show how parentla phone calls dictate public education for better or worse.

Besides all this Lilly, judging from your posts here, you are either a child prodigy, or are in a school class that is old enough to be seeing such things.

Heh, can we say I'm a child prodigy? (Though it really isn't true at all.) Thanks though.


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[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited 03-18-2002).]
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Old 03-18-2002, 06:40 PM   #8
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I'm not Jewish, but I've done so many projects on the Holocaust. I went to a Catholic school, I think I used Schindler's List in nearly every project I had. It's relevant on so many levels.

We were finally allowed to watch it in class in grade 12 world religions, so we were about 17, 18. No one in the class thought it too 'graphic.' Coming from the generation fo kids growing up with R-rated movies, Pay-per-view, horror films, WTC, etc, I'm not surpirsed.

Schindler's List should be viewed as a testimonial to the hatred int his world--how could we go so far? A monument to all those who suffered/died, and a testament to the triumph of the huiman spirit--that there is SOME good out there in the world--even in a time of unspeakable evil.

By not allowing people to watch Schindler's List we are essentailly denying the Holocaust. It was brutal. It was bloody. But the facts have to be known so that we can ensure that it never happens again. The parent phone call should mean nothing. It's just one bigoted opinion (he hasn't even seen it. How can he judge it?)
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Old 03-18-2002, 07:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:
Coming from the generation fo kids growing up with R-rated movies, Pay-per-view, horror films, WTC, etc, I'm not surpirsed.

Wow. I never thought about WTC as what I grew up with. I dunno, after that my generation was supposedly dubbed 'generation 911,' but I hated that thought....to be always stuck in that moment. Isn't everyone gen 911 then? We were all there. Whatever, it just took me by surprise that it's now included with things like rated R films, on part of their being so violent.

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Old 03-22-2002, 11:36 AM   #10
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I'm torn on Schindler's list. I think it was very well told, and the music and acting were exceprional. I had two problems with it, though.

1. The use of color. It looks neat, but it just draws me out of the movie.

2. It wasn't entirely accurate, historically. Most people don't know this, but Oskar Schindler was an anti-Semite. After WWII, he said the reason he saved all those Jews was that he didn't like seeing living creatures die. He equated it with saving a stray dog from an oncoming vehicle.

Other than that, I thought it was brilliant, especially Williams's score. It's my opinion that Spielberg's directing combined with Williams's composing improves a film tenfold.

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Old 03-23-2002, 03:00 AM   #11
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Not George, I didn't know that for a fact, but after watching that movie I found myself thinking yes he was part bastard, but part heart as well. Perhaps it is just my interpretation, and it wasn't portrayed as well as you think it should have been in regards to accuracy. I had mixed feelings about him. What about you?
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Old 03-23-2002, 05:45 AM   #12
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Warning! This post tells part of the movie so it might contain spoilers for those who haven't seen the movie (and if you haven't, go see it ASAP!).


Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas:
2. It wasn't entirely accurate, historically. Most people don't know this, but Oskar Schindler was an anti-Semite. After WWII, he said the reason he saved all those Jews was that he didn't like seeing living creatures die. He equated it with saving a stray dog from an oncoming vehicle.
Hmm, I disagree with you here. I thought the movie did show this part quite accurately. I haven't seen the movie for a long time, but IIRC, Spielberg did show that at first Oskar Schindler was only interested in the money. He let the Jews work in his factory as they were cheap. He didn't have any other, more noble, motives.
The discussion should then be how Oskar Schindler changed during WWII. The movie shows the turning point with the razzia he witnesses. The movie is then still ambiguous with regard to his feelings for Jews, so your point of view might still hold. But somehow I don't think that was a point Spielberg was trying to make.

Anyway, this is my view on that particular storyline. And even if this inaccuracy isn't an inaccuracy at all, that does not mean there aren't any others. A few weeks ago I read that the girl with the red jacket didn't die. She's still alive and the (Dutch) paper I read had a small profile on her.

'He who saves one life saves the world entire'

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Old 03-23-2002, 04:42 PM   #13
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In a time of great depression; in the shadows of the Cracow ghetto, a miraculous story emerged about the growth of the human soul and the triumph of good over evil. It was the story of Oskar Schindler, a flamboyant German industrialist. He was a womanizer, a drunkard, a gambler and a bon viveur. In contrast, to 1,300 Jews, Oskar Schindler was an angel of hope. One survivor later said, “Schindler is an angel dressed as a man...” Schindler's List is the story of a man who constantly opposed the SS, who ridiculed the system; a non-conformist who was transformed by the Holocaust and the war into a man with a mission, a saviour.

I raise the following points:
-He was raised in Austria-Hungary (Moravia) and spoke German. In essence, he WAS German. He had few Jewish friends. . “The young Oskar should defend some bullied Jewish boy on the way home from school. It is a safe bet that it didn’t happen.” (33).
-He quickly became a womanizer. He was a man with few morals.

-In 1939, not wanting to miss out on a chance to make big money, he marched into Cracow on the heels of the SS. It was here that he made initial contact with a Jew named Itzhak Stern, who became his accountant. Stern set Oskar up with some wealthy Jewish investors, who lent Oskar money to open his factory. Stern became Oskar’s confidant in the following years. It was Stern himself that planted the seed Oskar needed. One day, while discussing religion, Oskar mentioned how it was difficult to believe that in an [era of hate, it was hard to believe that God cared about the death of a single sparrow] (48). It was then that Stern suggested that faith could be summed up in a single verse, “he who saves the life of one man saves the entire world.” (48) It was this quote that describes Oskar’s actions perfectly: by saving a few single people, he was actually saving something more, a race, a culture, a story.

--Later, driven by profit, Oskar opened up an enamelware factory, He hired only Jewish labour, because it was the cheapest labour around.
--Oskar dove into the black-market, making friends with important German businessmen by softening them up with money, booze, cigarettes and women. Later, they helped him win his release from prison, after being arrested twice (once for black marketing and once for kissing a Jewess, breaking the Race and Resettlement Act).
--He looked down on the city of Cracow while it was being invaded by the Nazis. As he watched, he became fixated on a tiny young toddler in a red coat. She herself represented the horror of the killing below him: so visible, yet no one did anything about it. Oskar watched this girl, no more than three years old, who would have been a witness to the crimes of the ghetto as well. It was here that he truly realized that extermination was on the agenda.
“Beyond that day no thinking person could fail to see what would happen. I was now resolved to everything in my power to defeat the system” 133).

--Realizing the horrors of the Plasow work camp, run by Amon Goeth, Schindler's friend, , Schindler arranged to have a certain number of Jews moved to his factory, where they would sleep and work, thus saving them from Goeth and the horrors of the work camp

--Schindler arranged to have more special things done at his camp: ie. Hosing down of the cars, softening the big-wigs with booze, sausage, and prostitutes…etc.

--In the end, Schindler fled his camp to escape from the liberation it would soon receive. Theer was no tearful goodbye. He simply received the ring and left.

--More than anything it is the story of a transformation. And of one of the few people who had the courage to do something in a time of evil.
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Old 03-23-2002, 04:45 PM   #14
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I should have mentioned that those were some points I did on my Schindler study in grade 11 (the book, the film, the actual list). The book is fantastic. I highly recommend you read it. Thomas Keneally has done a lot of research into the life of Schindler and the Schindlerjuden (Schindler Jews).

Power is when we have every justification to kill and we don’t.”

Oskar Schindler
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Old 03-23-2002, 06:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:
I should have mentioned that those were some points I did on my Schindler study in grade 11 (the book, the film, the actual list). The book is fantastic. I highly recommend you read it. Thomas Keneally has done a lot of research into the life of Schindler and the Schindlerjuden (Schindler Jews).

Power is when we have every justification to kill and we don’t.”

Oskar Schindler
I hated the book. Loads of information, but it was really unreadable, atlaeast I found it as such.

Ant.

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