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Old 01-29-2002, 12:05 AM   #16
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Don't you think it's different for a woman than it is for a man? I think women are more susceptible to feelings of guilt or think they have cheapened themselves, if they have sex before marriage. I'm not saying women are weaker, only that women are more sensitive to what happens to their bodies, if that's the right way of saying it. Correct me if I'm wrong. That said; yes, it is a personal decision and whether premarital sex is good/bad depends on one's motives/conscience/convictions, I suppose?


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Old 01-29-2002, 12:22 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Discoteque:
well, *I* didn't wait (and in a BIG way during my "vixen years"), but now I sure wish I had. Personally, I think it's the best, most romantic, most intimately personal gift you could ever give to another person (i.e., your spouse). Knowing I won't have that to give to my future mate really bums me out...
Easier said than done, but try not to be bummed out by a decision you made before you felt you knew better. Now you know, right? What you did helped you in coming to the decision that's best for you and that is to wait. I hate to read about people that get bummed out because of something they did, I mean, these things happen and everything (no matter how painful or how much of a bummer it may be) happens for a reason. No need to drag yourself down, imo. Not to sound too corny or give too much info away, but sex with my husband is a lot more than a good lay. It's spiritual and beautiful but there's passion and lust and all that good stuff to go with it that we share with each other, and we respect ourselves and each other in the morning. Knowing that we plan on holding that amount of respect along with trust and friendship paramount in our relationship as a married couple. Neither of us were virgins when we met, but having a sexual history under our belts (no pun intended) had no bearing on how we felt for each other. And it still doesn't matter because we are together, and share ourselves body and soul - the same can not be said for our other partners obviously, as before my husband and I met each other we never knew how good it can be, and that sex is more than a night in the sack. So don't worry about never being able to give yourself to your future mate. When the time comes your mate will love you no matter what, and your past will drift away. You'll be able to share much more than your bodies when the time comes, and that imo, is a LOT more than a roll in the hay. You catch my drift?


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Old 01-29-2002, 02:11 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Anthony:
One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.


I dont think everyone wants to get married to someone and honeymoon only to find out how awkward a first time experiance can be (thumbs up) - However, Im only speculating based on what Ive been told, seeing as I havent even had a girlfriend in a year, and never before have I commited any sexual acts save for kissing, not that its any of your business anyway...

**This next part is going to be long-winded so you may just want to skim it**
However, it depends on people's convictions, some people feel that it is truly noble, right, and richeous to save themselves for marriage, which is totally valid in my views. They have dedicated themselves to a specific religion, and based themselves on certain principles and morals by which to lead their lives, and thats definitely something there isnt enough of in this world. However, Im not strictly religious by any means, I mean lets face it, Im vengeful, I can be downright merciless, greedy, blasphemous... I dont believe specifically in the God that a lot of Western faiths dictate exists. I have my faults, but Im only human, someone tells me not to do something and Ill probably do it just to spite them, or Ill agree to listen and adhere to what theyve said. Its about logic, if someone tells you not to do something stupid like jump off a building chances are you arent going to do it. If someone tells you dont drink underage, or dont drink period (history: prohibition), then youre probably going to say oh hey Im going drinking screw you. Its descretion, knowing varying degrees of right vs. wrong. Granted, just because everybodys doing something doesnt make it right, if its not something you should be doing. People, as individuals, have to be smart enough to know what theyre getting themselves into. I have grown up in a family, where everyone is Christian, I however may go to church with them just to be with them, even though Im not really a true devout believer. My family is whats always been important to me, Ive learned so much from them, and I owe my morals/ethics to them. Hold doors open for people, call people on their birthday, say please, thank you, help out even if youre not asked, if someone pisses you off dont blow up at them but still let them know theyve crossed a line - go about things politely, violence doesnt solve anything but merely causes situations to escalate, be a leader and not a boss/tyrant... I dont know really... People devout to a faith of prayer, church, etc probably look at my list and go what else? is that all? And my answer is no, but at the same time yes. I make my own desicions, Im more of a naturalist/spiritualist, but even that doesnt cover it. Agnosticism I suppose is the closest... However, back to my point... Do I plan to save myself for marriage? No, not really, its not high on my priorities list. Do I plan to go out, simply for the sake of animalistic sex? Hell no I dont. Sex is supposed to be a ritual (probably a better word then that, but thats the one im using) for people who are in love, not just lovers, that term is too cliched and can mean too many things nowadays, but for two people who are truly in love. So, therefore, I will likely wait till I love someone, its reciprocated, and there has been time enough between us that its not about to just dissapear. 3 months with someone and I can pretty reasonably say I loved them, but it didnt last between us, distance and whatnot, but keeping in mind we were both 16/17 at the time and it just wasnt feasible (dont ask, Im not going to divulge any more info).

*long story short*
Sex depends on love, trust, maturity, and people. My english teacher would talk about the great chain of being, God is highest, People are in the middle, Animals on the bottom - sortof an Ego, Superego, Id kind of aspect. We are not God(s), but we are better than animials, at least we can be, rather than going around like animals having sex on whim just for the sheer reproductive/sex aspect, we have to elevate ourselves to the human level, we were blessed with emotions, sex should be more than just 'hey baby lets go get nekkid'. People have to be smart/mature enough for sex, and they have to trust their partner enough and be mature enough to handle a relationship - my point being, people dont have to be married to have sex, but they shouldnt have sex just to have sex with someone.

Ok, my thoughts in that summary are somewhat incomplete at the last bit, but I believe you get the gist of what I was saying yes?
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:23 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Anthony:
One should never save oneself for marriage, otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

I'll have to go and agree on this one.

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Old 01-29-2002, 02:26 AM   #20
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Like others here have said, I believe it's really a personal decision. One thing I don't like is that sex itself is held as wrong, so people do everything else they can without "doing the deed" and think that they're ok in God's eyes, because they haven't had actual intercourse. If God didn't have intercourse in mind until marriage, then he sure as hell didn't have 69s or oral sex or feeling each other up, etc, in mind. So in that sense I find it annoying that Britney is held up as this model of Christian goodness (although she's trying to get away from that now) when her actions are no less lustful then people who go ahead and have sex. Not that I dislike Britney personally because of it. I can perfectly understand why it's hard to not do something with someone you're in love with, but I think it's time her record label/pr people stop with the virginity thing.

Aaaanyway, I believe it's a personal decision. Just as long as you don't start by jumping in the sack with just anybody . If you are in love with a person, and you're both facing the situation with eyes open and both feel it's the right thing, then there should be no problem. So my future wife (whoever she is) might not be the first one I've been with, but I don't regret it because I shared that ultimate act of intimacy and love (and really, really good feelings ) with someone I love and care deeply about.
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:26 AM   #21
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Originally posted by TheU2:
I saved myself until I was 16. At that point myself and my 15 year old girlfriend at the time thought we were mature and responsible adults.

I saved myself until I was eleven and my girlfriend was 6.
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:37 AM   #22
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Well I've never been one to say that pre-martial sex is wrong, or anything like that - but I'm not going to judge someone either way whether they wait or not. I think that you can love someone just as much as someone who is married does, and if you feel it's right than do what your heart tells you. Although, I must agree in ways about wishing I had waited longer... I still regret my first- I think I felt too pressured because I was the last one among my friend who hadnt yet - I guess I let society/peer pressure get to me. The two (serious) relationships I've had since then have shown me that as well. All in all it's just a VERY personal decision and I dont think that anyone has the right, or need for that matter, to tell you what you should or shouldnt do.

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Old 01-29-2002, 02:42 AM   #23
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Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
I didn't save myself for marriage, and personally I don't really regret what I've done in my past nor do I beat myself up for making decisions that now, may have not been in my best interests. Chock it up to experience, hindsight being 20/20.

A part of me wishes I waited until I met my husband, but at the time I didn't know my future and right now I wouldn't change my past for anything. For me, I don't think I made a bad decision, to have sex before I was married. I wasn't a person of completely loose morals, I didn't hop in the sack or have a good feel-up with every person I went on a date with. My only gripe I have is that I had sex for the first time in my teens. I thought I was mature enough to handle whatever consequences would come my way, and now that I'm older, I know now that back then I couldn't have handled such consequences. I may have been developed physically and I may have been driven my some primal instinct and I thought I was in love with this person enough to share myself with him, but emotionally I couldn't have hacked it. I know that now but I don't count it as a mistake I made in my life. I certainly don't regret the experience because that experience, along with others, has helped shaped the person I am today.

As far as lust goes, yeah, it's a powerful force that sometimes can't be explained. By nature we are animals driven by instinct, but I firmly believe it is our will given to us by God to use discretion. In my case I don't think sex before marriage is bad, but my case doesn't apply to every single person.

I find it sad that Britney Spears' virginity is always under the microscope. I think everyone needs to leave her alone and let her music speak for itself. She is just an image, much like Madonna is an image, and much like U2 had a rather subversive image during the Zooropa days. I don't think she should be a role model, I think that was something conjured up by her record label so parents could feel comfy letting their kids listen to Britney Spears. And to a greater degree, the squeaky clean image was used to sell more records. Miss Spears is human and she is surrounded by temptation like anyone else that's in her shoes and thrust into the spotlight. What she does in her bedroom should not be up for public speculation.

As far as spirituality is concerned, I think it is up to each individual to make up his or her own mind regarding a matter as personal as sex. Some people say "wait until marriage because sex before marriage is wrong" but that rule doesn't apply to everyone else. There are some people who don't think sex before marriage is wrong, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone else using our own set of moral standards as they might not apply to everyone else. Nor does the rule "get as much as you can get before you're married." Everyone is different. If sex is a matter between someone, their partner, and God, then just let it be. You know where you stand and you know what's in your heart.
adam's mistress thanks a lot, that post was really really good and honest and also very helpful, especially for people who still have to take this decision for themselves (like me ). I'm someone who listens a lot (maybe too much) to other people and so I'm kinda torn apart by all the different opinions and rules so that sometimes I forget what I want for myself, but you are perfectly right, everyone has to know and decide this for themselves.

Nothing to add to your post, I just totally agree in every point.



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Old 01-29-2002, 03:01 AM   #24
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Thanks for all your responses, especially those who addressed the issue of "other kinds of sex" (the Clinton definition? )

To those of you who are saving yourselves... I certainly don't mean to snoop, but if you feel like sharing with the group, how far would you go?
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:08 PM   #25
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First of all the whole Britney thing: it's her private life, and i don't think it's of anyone's business what she does with it. She's a celebrity, but for the media to dig into her private life on this scale is going too far IMO. It should be left between her and her boyfriend.

As for waiting: it depends on each person. (and each couple) There's not a rule about it IMO.
Personally, i don't think that having sex before marriage is wrong. (though i respect that, if a person chooses to do so)
On the other hand, i also think that over-doing it is wrong. (not just morally, but it can be life threatening also because of AIDS)

I guess virginity is a bigger issue for us girls than it is for the guys in our society.
It's a once in a life experience and i really think it should be something shared with someone special. You know, it should be special - maybe it's not necessarily with whom you're gonna marry, but someone you really love. It's the most intimate and emotional/spiritually bonding thing between two people - "making love".

And it never should be something you'd regret.


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[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 01-29-2002).]
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:39 PM   #26
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First of all the whole Britney thing: it's her private life, and i don't think it's of anyone's business what she does with it. She's a celebrity, but for the media to dig into her private life on this scale is going too far IMO. It should be left between her and her boyfriend.
She made it an issue.

She decided to make herself somewhat of a poster girl for waiting until marraige. She was happy to proclaim her virginity and what a wonderful example it was for girls everywhere.

Then, suddenly.....she shut up. And the matter became "too personal" to discuss.

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Old 01-29-2002, 06:08 PM   #27
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Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
Technical virginity is bullshit.
i agree completely. blah!!!@idiotas...


Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
She made it an issue.

She decided to make herself somewhat of a poster girl for waiting until marraige. She was happy to proclaim her virginity and what a wonderful example it was for girls everywhere.

Then, suddenly.....she shut up. And the matter became "too personal" to discuss..
yeah...hmmm *thinks of a conversation* ... *scratches head and runs away*

awaken all those whispers in the dusty shadow of a passing favour...
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Old 01-29-2002, 06:12 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Discoteque:
Knowing I won't have that to give to my future mate really bums me out...
Disco, stop beating yourself up for something that's in the past, and isn't that big a deal, anyway. You future mate will love you for who you are NOW, not who you were in the past. And anyway, all those things you've learned from the past have made you the wonderful person you are now. You have so much more to give than only your virginity, and if he's all bent out of shape over what's really a minor issue in the larger picture of marriage and lifetime commitment, you don't want him.

Neither my husband nor myself were virgins when we married, and while some our choices in the past may have been questionable, none of them was worth worrying about and apologizing for once we'd committed to each other. If you've made the choice to remain a virgin until marriage, that's your personal choice, and no one else's business. Same deal if you're not waiting.

I'm done now.
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Old 01-29-2002, 06:45 PM   #29
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adam's_mistress and martha: ((((HUGS))))

thanks for all that. You helped add a bit of perspective on my thought process over this issue...
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Old 01-29-2002, 08:58 PM   #30
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Originally posted by speedracer:
For once I agree with Dr.G.
I was thinking the same thing; I agree with BOTH of Doctor_Gonzo's posts in this thread; how rare is that?


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